ChatterBank2 mins ago
Time To Cancel My Graun Subscription
39 Answers
If I had a subscription to The Guardian (which I did have for many years) it would be being cancelled right now.
I've just read this 'leader' and it's possibly the most condescending, dismissive and plain wrong editorial that I've seen in a 'quality' newspaper for a long time.
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The total contempt for the democratic process and the desire to see the result of the referendum frustrated by MPs is quite astonishing.
When will the self-styled, self-serving metropolitan elite accept that (like it or not, and I'm not sure that I do) the country voted by a substantial majority to leave the EU and Parliament must be expected to carry through that result?
I've just read this 'leader' and it's possibly the most condescending, dismissive and plain wrong editorial that I've seen in a 'quality' newspaper for a long time.
https:/
The total contempt for the democratic process and the desire to see the result of the referendum frustrated by MPs is quite astonishing.
When will the self-styled, self-serving metropolitan elite accept that (like it or not, and I'm not sure that I do) the country voted by a substantial majority to leave the EU and Parliament must be expected to carry through that result?
Answers
Let me just say, as a staunch Remainer, I quite agree that, given the result of the referendum (although hardly "substantial majority"), Parliament must enact some form of real exit from EU. For any MP to try to block it per se is a dereliction of their duty. The people have spoken, so here's one Remainer who won't support the Remoaners (even though they're only...
16:58 Fri 10th Feb 2017
like it or not, the Guardian is correct. The "democratic process" you talk about it is not what you think it is. Britain (why am I always having to point this out to British people?) is a parliamentary democracy. Parliament is sovereign. "The people" are not. Referenda are advisory and though MPs will give them due weight they are in no way obliged to follow them. Nor have they ever been required to do what the executive - in effect, the cabinet - tells them to do.
(This is not to say MPs are somehow above the democratic process: they are subject to removal every few years.)
In this instance, the public decided what they wanted but no mention was made in the terms of the poll, or by the shifty leaders of the Brexit campaign, of how it was to be done. This is what Parliament must now sort out. At present, it looks as if MPs have decided simply to let the prime minister do what she wants without question. That is a dereliction of their duty. It continues a weakening of the power of Parliament that goes back through the Blair years to those of Thatcher.
It intrigues me that those who claim to want to restore Britain's autonomy are also those who denounce judges as public enemies, threaten to abolish the House of Lords, and generally do away with the constitution that has kept the country running for the past several centuries.
(This is not to say MPs are somehow above the democratic process: they are subject to removal every few years.)
In this instance, the public decided what they wanted but no mention was made in the terms of the poll, or by the shifty leaders of the Brexit campaign, of how it was to be done. This is what Parliament must now sort out. At present, it looks as if MPs have decided simply to let the prime minister do what she wants without question. That is a dereliction of their duty. It continues a weakening of the power of Parliament that goes back through the Blair years to those of Thatcher.
It intrigues me that those who claim to want to restore Britain's autonomy are also those who denounce judges as public enemies, threaten to abolish the House of Lords, and generally do away with the constitution that has kept the country running for the past several centuries.
I quote directly from the referendum leaflet, delivered by the Government to every voter :
"" A once in a generation decision
The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.
....
This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide. ""
I can't see how it can be any clearer - MPs can debate and challenge the details - but must not do as the Guardian is exhorting them and frustrate the result of the referendum.
"" A once in a generation decision
The referendum on Thursday, 23 June is your chance to decide if we should remain in or leave the European Union.
....
This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide. ""
I can't see how it can be any clearer - MPs can debate and challenge the details - but must not do as the Guardian is exhorting them and frustrate the result of the referendum.
as Gromit has previously pointed out, there was a referendum on whether the people of Manchester should have an elected mayor. The people of Manchester voted no. The result was ignored.
"in reality binding" - nope.
Likewise, the government can promise all it wants to implement the outcome of a referendum. But the decision is for parliament, not the government.
Why are you people so ignorant of the way your country is run? I blame the education system.
"in reality binding" - nope.
Likewise, the government can promise all it wants to implement the outcome of a referendum. But the decision is for parliament, not the government.
Why are you people so ignorant of the way your country is run? I blame the education system.
That is the point , isn't it ?
Dave and his mate Gideon instigated this referendum , even though there was no need to put it to the electorate .
There was no plans in place or even a thought of how a widthdrawal would be effected , following a yes vote ; simply because the aforementioned was coc*y enough to believe that the vote, would be to remain .
Thus we are now left with sorting out the process and quite rightly , by way of parliament and not by any one individual
Dave and his mate Gideon instigated this referendum , even though there was no need to put it to the electorate .
There was no plans in place or even a thought of how a widthdrawal would be effected , following a yes vote ; simply because the aforementioned was coc*y enough to believe that the vote, would be to remain .
Thus we are now left with sorting out the process and quite rightly , by way of parliament and not by any one individual
I don't think you understand it at all, sd. Otherwise you wouldn't be quoting government leaflets as if they somehow bound parliament, which is not government and is not bound by government promises.
Hypothetical answer: why would I be upset about people urging MPs to do things? That happens all the time. The Blair regime was particularly keen on doing whatever the Mail told it to. I don't recall any outrage at all on AB, from me or anyone else.
Hypothetical answer: why would I be upset about people urging MPs to do things? That happens all the time. The Blair regime was particularly keen on doing whatever the Mail told it to. I don't recall any outrage at all on AB, from me or anyone else.
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