Should The Government Permit Phase 2 Of The Neverendum?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39255181
I think they should hold it annually on St Nicola's day.

[mikey4444]

I haven't changed my position of Scottish independence....I don't think that they can go it alone.

But Sturgeon has made a powerful case for having a second Ref.

Brexit changes everything, for everybody.

Still think the answer will be the same though.

[Kromovaracun]

They don't really have a choice. If they refuse it, the Scottish govt will contrive some way to hold one anyway. Yes, this would not technically be legal and would probably have a bearing on the result. But it's difficult to see what the westminster govt could do to stop it, and it will just undermine their authority anyway.

So yes, they probably should for their own sake. I really doubt they will though, as May seems to be committed against it.

[New Judge]

“Brexit changes everything, for everybody.”

Explain please, Mikey, how it changes things any more for the Scots than it does for Londoners of the residents of Acacia Avenue just round the corner from me (who I believe also voted to remain).

Good luck to the Scots. Hope they get their referendum 2 sooner rather than later. Then we can either be rid of them or (having lost the best of three) hope they keep quiet for the foreseeable future. My own preference is option 1 but I believe they are not as daft as Ms Sturgeon would have us believe. Either way, win-win as far as I am concerned.

[ToraToraTora]

"Prime Minister Theresa May has so far avoided saying whether or not she would grant permission.Her official spokesman responded to Ms Sturgeon's announcement by saying that the evidence "clearly showed a majority of people in Scotland do not want a second independence referendum". So perhaps they can have a referendum on whether to have indyref2!

[mikey4444]

NJ....I didn't say the Brexit changes everything for Scotland anymore than the rest of the UK.

But when they had the first Ref. in September 2014, the Ref. on leaving the EU hadn't been held, and maybe the 2014 vote would have been different it it had ?

[Kromovaracun]

I think Sturgeon has promised this so far in the future precisely because she's banking on Brexit being a disaster. I have similar feelings, but it is a bit distasteful (not to mention reckless) to make such an ostentatious political gamble based on it.

Personally, I hope Scots vote to stay purely because I think the last thing the UK needs is a failed state on its immediate border in the near future. But ho hum. Nothing in politics has gone the way I wanted it to in the past few years, so I don't see any reason why it should start now!

[Gromit]

Not bothered either way.

I thought they voting correctly last time rejecting Independence, but Brexit does change what the Scottish population voted for.
In the EU referendum, Scots voted unanimously to stay in the EU, so they could achieve that and Independence with a new vote.

The Prime Minister's spokesperson said

// "Another referendum would cause huge economic uncertainty at the worst possible time". //

[Gromit]

The Prime Minister's spokesperson said:

// "Another referendum would cause huge economic uncertainty at the worst possible time". //

Wouldn't it be the best possible time? Everything will need changing and renegotiating when we leave, so what time would be better to sort out Scotland's future?

[mushroom25]

//In the EU referendum, Scots voted unanimously to stay in the EU,//

really? every single scot?

[EDDIE51]

The Scottish independence referendum contained a clause that said that if the status of the UK 'substantially changed' (or similar words) then that would be grounds for calling a 2nd referendum.
Brexit is just such a 'substantial change' so Sturgeon says the UK leaving the EU will automatically trigger a 2nd Scottish Independence referendum.
The SNP say they don't need permission for the 2nd referendum as that permission was granted as part of the original referendum.

[Jackdaw33]

I don't give a monkey's either way. The Scots can vote till the cows come home. As long as we get out of the EU they can please themselves.

[Gromit]

Mushroom,

Every polling area vote overwhelmingly toRemain, but unanamously was perhaps the wrong word.

// Scotland has voted in favour of the UK staying in the EU by 62% to 38% - with all 32 council areas backing Remain. //

[emmie]

according to some it won't ever happen

http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question1542679.html

[jim360]

This is either brilliantly-judged or awfully-judged. At the moment I don't know which -- but it's certainly one or the other.

For myself, I'd have only considered holding a second referendum after the effects of Brexit were properly understood. I get why someone might want to leave before, but this only adds to the potential mess rather than avoids it.

Best solution from Westminster might be to guarantee (presumably in law rather than just a gentlemen's agreement) a second referendum dated some time in the middle of the 2020s or something, or at any rate once the country as a whole has settled down from Brexit.

[mushroom25]

//The Scottish independence referendum contained a clause that said that if the status of the UK 'substantially changed' (or similar words) then that would be grounds for calling a 2nd referendum. //

Eddie, the legislation providing for the referendum in 2014 is here:-
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2013/14/enacted
it makes no mention of, or provision for, a second referendum. maybe you're thinking of the situation pertaining to northern Ireland, which did provide for a change of circumstance?

[EDDIE51]

The result of the Scottish independence referendum WAS NOT overwhelming it was 45% No to 55% Yes. Two areas voted for Yes.

[EDDIE51]

Forgot the link
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/results

[emmie]

Ms Sturgeon may huff and puff but her position isn't sustainable.

[EDDIE51]

Mushroom yes you are correct , it is in the election manifesto not the referendum. This is from The Guardian.
>
''Why is the first minister doing this?
Sturgeon argues last year’s Scottish National party election manifesto gives her a mandate to press for a new independence vote if “a significant or material change” in Scotland’s constitutional position occurred, such as the rest of the UK voting to leave the EU while Scotland voted to stay.''

[jourdain2]

One way or another Scotland will be out of the EU. If they stay in the UK, they will come out along with the rest of us - but have their major trading partners still working with them (last I heard Scotland did more trade with the rest of the UK than with Europe - correct me if I am wrong, please). If they leave the UK they will still be out of the EU and will have to begin the long process of applying to join - but they will lose free access to the UK market. Even with the best will in the world from Brussels to speed up this process, other countries (notably Spain) will veto Scotland joining. This is pie-in-the-sky stuff - said to make trouble and political capital with no real risk of it happening i.m.o..