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emmie - //so some think it a good idea, whilst others think that they should string them up by their proverbial'
14:28 Tue 14th Mar 2017
jaydn - // andy-hughes, this is absulutely nothing to do with imposing modern attitudes upon a bygone age. You've missed the point. As the years pass, Society regrets its actions and no one nowadays wants to make a decision that may be criticised in years to come. This is why no politician will advocate castration. People in power nowadays err on the side of caution rather than risk being ridiculed in their later years. //
I didn't suggest that it was - my response was to your bringing Allan Turing into the discussion, which is really not a relevant comparison.
I don't believe that politicians today are cautious because they have one eye on their posthumus legacies, circumspection occurs only in terms of securing votes for the next election, and no further than that.
I would suggest that any efforts to legislate in terms of chenical castration will soon be mired in the morass of Human Rights legislation that hobbles any attempts at law-making these days - roll on Brexit!
//I seem to have missed the debate on Alan Turin. No doubt it was quite emotive. //
It was - those who believed that a pardon was appropriate, and those who believed it was inappropriate - I was in the latter camp.
I didn't suggest that it was - my response was to your bringing Allan Turing into the discussion, which is really not a relevant comparison.
I don't believe that politicians today are cautious because they have one eye on their posthumus legacies, circumspection occurs only in terms of securing votes for the next election, and no further than that.
I would suggest that any efforts to legislate in terms of chenical castration will soon be mired in the morass of Human Rights legislation that hobbles any attempts at law-making these days - roll on Brexit!
//I seem to have missed the debate on Alan Turin. No doubt it was quite emotive. //
It was - those who believed that a pardon was appropriate, and those who believed it was inappropriate - I was in the latter camp.
Prudie
"It's all way out of my expertise but a mental illness to me is something that develops in life through chemical imbalance and/or external factors on those who are susceptible. Like any illness medical intervention can treat, ease or even cure. Mental derangement, for want of a better term, is a genetic or neurological misalignment you are born with, people aren't born mentally ill. That is my view. The suggestion is therefore that paedophiles are nurtured not natured then?”
Many paedophiles are victims of some kind of abuse themselves and there is evidence that the “imbalance illnesses” like Bipolar and schizophrenia have a familial link. There are many physical illnesses caused by neurological misalignment, cerebral palsy for one so I think your division, while it may make sense to you, doesn’t, from my experience, have much basis in fact.
"It's all way out of my expertise but a mental illness to me is something that develops in life through chemical imbalance and/or external factors on those who are susceptible. Like any illness medical intervention can treat, ease or even cure. Mental derangement, for want of a better term, is a genetic or neurological misalignment you are born with, people aren't born mentally ill. That is my view. The suggestion is therefore that paedophiles are nurtured not natured then?”
Many paedophiles are victims of some kind of abuse themselves and there is evidence that the “imbalance illnesses” like Bipolar and schizophrenia have a familial link. There are many physical illnesses caused by neurological misalignment, cerebral palsy for one so I think your division, while it may make sense to you, doesn’t, from my experience, have much basis in fact.
emmie - //so some think it a good idea, whilst others think that they should string them up by their proverbial's, not one i advocate by the way. //
As always, these are the two schools of thought that emerge when this subject is debated.
Personally, even when taking in the severity of the crimes that can result from mental illness - and this is just one of them - I am always minded to err on the side of humanity - to be filled with the knee-jerk bile of some of the posters on here would keep me awake at night seething with pointless directionless hatred.
As always, these are the two schools of thought that emerge when this subject is debated.
Personally, even when taking in the severity of the crimes that can result from mental illness - and this is just one of them - I am always minded to err on the side of humanity - to be filled with the knee-jerk bile of some of the posters on here would keep me awake at night seething with pointless directionless hatred.
I'm with you there emmie. For me, a major issue would be a miscarriage of justice. If castration was adopted and for example, just one case in a thousand turned out to be a wrongful conviction, for whatever reason, it would be a cause for concern.
It's a bit like these people that have a hand removed in Middle East countries for crimes that can sometimes appear trivial to us in the West. They can't sew a hand back on if new evidence comes to light and with my tongue firmly in cheek, I'd speculate that the same cannot be done to other appendages either! Ultimately, do we really want to lower ourselves to this sort of punishment? Adopting such methods is nothing less than barbaric given that mistaken convictions can happen and the only people to benefit would be lawyers.
It's a bit like these people that have a hand removed in Middle East countries for crimes that can sometimes appear trivial to us in the West. They can't sew a hand back on if new evidence comes to light and with my tongue firmly in cheek, I'd speculate that the same cannot be done to other appendages either! Ultimately, do we really want to lower ourselves to this sort of punishment? Adopting such methods is nothing less than barbaric given that mistaken convictions can happen and the only people to benefit would be lawyers.
I listened to the rugby referee Nigel Owen on Desert Island Discs, which was quite moving, and he spoke of his attempted suicide as he couldn’t live with the thought of being gay. It wasn’t something he had a choice in or he wouldn’t have made that one. I suspect the same if true of many paedophiles in that they really don’t want to be what they are.
In order to reduce the threat to children there has to be some way that these people can seek help before acting on their unnatural desires. It would probably involve a bit more understanding from all of us for anyone who hasn’t actually offended.
In order to reduce the threat to children there has to be some way that these people can seek help before acting on their unnatural desires. It would probably involve a bit more understanding from all of us for anyone who hasn’t actually offended.
andy-Hughes, it has nothing to do with politicians securing votes. I think they are more concerned about criticism in the here and now. No one wants to have to defend themselves against stupid decisions that they and their colleagues supported. Remember, many of these people aspire to elevation to The Lords where they can 300 quid a day for turning up at the door and then walking away if recent press reports are anything to go by. The ability to sleep in the chamber undisturbed is undoubtedly a perk of the job.
I'm glad you concur with my view that current Human Rights legislation is a serious impediment to legislating over human castration. However, I would not hold my breath over this matter when Brexit finally arrives. The government has refused to provide any comments on the matter to date and with the whole thing enshrined in everything we do in our daily lives in the UK, amending it would be a nightmare. Besides it's not all bad.
Mind you, there are aspects of Human Rights legislation that are truly mind boggling. Some years ago, there existed a residents committee on the estate where I lived and one of the committee members decided it was time to pull all the estate children together and tell them about something called "Article 12" which basically set out the rights of children throughout the UK. Typically, this empowerment of children was what was responsible for many children running riot in school and elsewhere knowing that no adult could touch them physically or metaphorically.
I was never an advocate of a clip round the earhole in my youth, but Human Rights legislation put paid to it permanently.
I'm glad you concur with my view that current Human Rights legislation is a serious impediment to legislating over human castration. However, I would not hold my breath over this matter when Brexit finally arrives. The government has refused to provide any comments on the matter to date and with the whole thing enshrined in everything we do in our daily lives in the UK, amending it would be a nightmare. Besides it's not all bad.
Mind you, there are aspects of Human Rights legislation that are truly mind boggling. Some years ago, there existed a residents committee on the estate where I lived and one of the committee members decided it was time to pull all the estate children together and tell them about something called "Article 12" which basically set out the rights of children throughout the UK. Typically, this empowerment of children was what was responsible for many children running riot in school and elsewhere knowing that no adult could touch them physically or metaphorically.
I was never an advocate of a clip round the earhole in my youth, but Human Rights legislation put paid to it permanently.
I've already said I have little knowledge in this area but having looked it up a bit since I see there are many qualified people who do not think it's a mental illness (and many who do) with such suggestions as sexual deviants or extreme fetishists. I think therefore I can't accept paedophilia is universally accepted as a mental illness despite several ABers telling me it is. I have an open mind.
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