Was The Conservative Party Right To Withdraw The Whip From Anne Marie Morris

[sp1814]

She claimed that the Brexit 'No deal is a n***** in a woodpile’

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/anne-marie-morris-racist_uk_5963b0cae4b03f144e2c7c78

Not even sure what this phrase means, especially in regard to Brexit (will look it up later), but perhaps in this instance the phrase is ill-considered rather than specifically offensive?

I mean she wasn't slagging off a black person - just using an out-of-date phrase?

[scooping]

May's not one MP down. Morris can vote any way she wishes and she'll vote Tory of course.

[naomi24]

SP at 18:36 , no I don’t think of it that way. Unlike the ‘c’ word, which is a universally acknowledged profanity, n***** is a word that may be used selectively – depending on who you are, so not the same thing at all. If people stopped being so offended, the offenders would come to understand that their use of words that have unpleasant connotations have no effect on the victims and would hence, give the whole thing up as a futile exercise. I always find it quite odd that black people take offence at being called a black something or other but never actually object to the real insult – the something or other bit. Now if they were to say, “You’re quite right, I am black”, there’s not a lot the abuser can say to that. While people continue to take offence abusers will continue to abuse – because that’s what bullies do.

[Jackdaw33]

I have never understood what practical effect the withdrawal of the whip has either on the party or the person affected.

[woofgang]

for the party it means potentially one less vote; for the individual, the support of the party is withdrawn which makes it hard if not impossible to get things done for constituents.

[sp1814]

naomi24

Nope - go to any bar near Arsenal on match day, you will hear the 'c' word left right and centre, and it will be completely acceptable, even a term of affection amongst some blokes.

However, just because those blokes in that specific environment may use the 'c' word or the 'f' word doesn't make it acceptable to the rest of us.

There is absolutely no[i universally taboo word. What you think is taboo amongst polite society is actually used as adjective elsewhere...

For example 'I saw this effing awesome film last week'.

Millions of English speakers won't be offended by that in specific circumstances, right?

Say that in front of someone's five year old child and the situation changes.

Same as the 'N' word.

[i]Exactly] the same.

[sp1814]

naomi24

You wrote:

//I always find it quite odd that black people take offence at being called a black something or other but never actually object to the real insult//

That actually makes semantic sense, but in the context of an argument/row/fight, few people will recognise this. They will join black with the 'C' word or whatever is being thrown in. It's joined up in the head, and I think in those situations, it's intent rather than semantic details that move the fight on.

[-Talbot-]

To make the mistake of using an offensive phrase means to me you are no stranger to that offensive phrase.

[naomi24]

SP, I disagree – but you’re clearly determined to remain offended by the use of the word, so there’s no point in arguing the point, so to speak.

[naomi24]

SP, ^ That was to your post at 19:17.

[sp1814]

naomi24

Without a counter-argument, my point stands.

There are offensive swear words that are in common use and they are treated the same as the 'N' word.

If you were referred to using a derogatory word in public or in a meeting at work, are you saying you would not be offended?

Also - this is a little off, "I always find it odd that black people..."

I think it's true to say that particular semantic form gets most people riled, even though as you say, technically they shouldn't.

If you went up to someone and shouted:

"You ..... scum"

and inserted white, gay, black, Hindu, Sikh, Muslim etc - the reaction would be pretty much consistent across the board.

At least, I think it would. Happy to hear your view.

[sp1814]

naomi24

With regard to me being offended by the word, please refer back to the question I posted.

As far as I'm concerned it was ill-considered, but not deliberately racist/offensive in this situation. If I were at the interview and she'd said it, I would've cringed on her behalf out of embarrassment knowing what was likely to come.

[Jackdaw33]

Totally OTT reaction IMO. May comes out of this looking sillier than Morris.

[sp1814]

Jackdaw33

Agreed. I see no malice in what she said. I think suspension is way over the top.

A knee jerk reaction.

Hope that doesn't offend jerks...

[andres]

I don't think she was meaning to be offensive when she used this out dated phrase.She could have chosen her words more carefully but I don't think she should have been suspended.I find it odd that words in common use when I was a child are now considered offensive . For example you could take a coat to the shop and ask for it to be dyed ni++++ brown without causing offence. Queers,homos,and other derogatory names were used openly. Asians were P++++ and Chinese were Ch++++.What we didn't hear back then were the 'f' word and'c' word . Now we are not supposed to say the 'n' word but the 'f' and 'c' words are used openly all the time. So yes language is constantly evolving but not always for the better.

[sp1814]

Well, let's be honest - p**i was frequently used incorrectly, seeing as not all Asians are from Pakistan!

[jno]

no, I don't think she's a racist (at least not on the basis of this incident), just someone who needs to choose her words more carefully. Which is really good advice for anyone called on to speak in public, such as politicians. But I think May's overreacted.

[EDDIE51]

Scooping you are wrong a suspended MP CAN NOT VOTE !
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_from_the_UK_parliament
So Mrs May IS one down!
They can't even enter The House of Commons and their pay is withheld.

[jno]

I can see why May did what she did. With a waffer-thin majority, the last thing she needs is for the Tories to be seen as the racist party.

However, if she was expecting to head off a Twitter storm ... well, there doesn't seem to have been one. So I think we just have to say May's misjudged the public mood again. (With the proviso that in her place I might well have done the same myself.)

[Jackdaw33]

Eddie, she is not suspended, she merely has had the whip withdrawn. She is still an MP, can vote and draw her salary.

[jno]

she's an MP, just not a Tory MP.