What Is The Solution To Having Borderless Travel & Trade Between Eu Eire And Non-Eu Northern Ireland On Brexit?

[willbewhatiwill]

Her Majesty's Government (HMG) is in denial - as to have borderless travel between EU Eire and non-EU Northern Ireland on Brexit would surely require some form (present very vague & unknown) of freedom of person, goods and services arrangement with UK and the EU.

Individually tracking each person, goods and services crossing (often several times in a day) the Eire-Northern Irish border will require lots of administrative work, if not practically impossible.

Wake-up and smell the coffee!

[fiction-factory]

I'm not sure why people focus on one issue of Brexit- whether it be this or chlorinated chicken -as if these minor details in the scheme of things are insurmountable or should cause the government to call the whole thing off.

[ichkeria]

This is a major issue in the scheme of things if you live in Ireland.

[willbewhatiwill]

fiction-factory,

Chlorinated chicken, GM crops/livestock or treating livestock with growth hormones are NOT insurmountable - as customers can be offered choice between ones that were so treated (i.e. chlorination, GM/hormonally treated) and those that were not.

However, movement of goods, services and people between EU and non-EU borders would ether require (1) border check (or computer tracking every time each item/individual crossing the border) or (2) freedom of moment of them.

HMG negotiators should 'wake-up and smell the coffee' and concede this is the case in the final analysis.

[fiction-factory]

You have identified two options- some controls or no controls. I think theHMG are aware of that. i'm not sure why they need to wake up and smell the coffee. It should be possible to work something out.
I'm not aware of any major issues regarding travel between Isle of Man (non-EU) and England/Ireland currently, although i accept that requires a sea crossing.
What would you like to see as regards theRepublic/northern Irelnd border?

[Peter Pedant]

what ?
we can't Brexit because we cant partition Ireland ?
there is something wrong with that argument - let me think.....

[willbewhatiwill]

fiction-factor,

My point is, in the final analysis, frankly there is no magical unidentifiable, vague solutions - except the two options I identified i.e. (1) border check (or computer tracking every time each item/individual crossing the border) or (2) freedom of movement of them.

Movement of goods, services, people between Isle of Man (non-EU) and England/Ireland are subject to border checks (i.e. option 1 above).

[willbewhatiwill]

Peter Pedant,
On Brexit, North Ireland (non-EU) and Eire (EU) are already partitioned, hence the extreme difficulties of Brexit.

[fiction-factory]

There is probably a continuum of options in between the two extreme options of let any person/lorry through (there's not really a physical border anyway- not even signs to say you are moving from one to the other, and passport checks have not occurred since 1923 save for checks during the height of the Troubles) and the opposite extreme of perhaps barbed wire fences all along the border and stopping and searching, and maybe putting in quarantine for a period anyone who tries to cross the border. The solution will probably be 95% or so the first option with a few spot/selective checks

[fiction-factory]

I have a feeling PP knows quite a lot about the history of Ireland, willbewhatIwill and knows that there has been a common travel area since 1923, although I accept that both have been either in or out of the EU at the same time .

[willbewhatiwill]

fiction-factory said, "The solution will probably be 95% or so the first option with a few spot/selective checks"

This option is too uncertain/imprecise/vague (hence unacceptable in the final analysis) for EU's freedom of goods and services (and perhaps people) purposes.

I know there currently no hard border between North Ireland and Eire. I lived in the West Midlands. I have freely crossed the Northern Ireland-Eire border several times in the past without 'let or hinder'.

[fiction-factory]

To help me undertsand the point you are making please can you give me an example of something that would be unacceptable to us or the EU.

[ichkeria]

The irish border is notoriously non-consistent with geographical features.
There are even some houses which straddle it.
So good luck UK government with whatever scheme you choose. And Mr Varadkar made it clear there'll be no helpful suggestions from Dublin, and indeed why should there be. This is a b*ll*cks entirely of London's making

[willbewhatiwill]

fiction-factory,

No one wants a hard border between Eire & North Ireland - not least the EU, Eire government, HMG, DUP, Irish citizens,/businesses, USA, etc, as well as being required by the peace treaty.

It would be unacceptable to the EU to have imprecise free movement of goods and services (and perhaps EU & non-EU citizens) between a EU and a non-EU state. Such movement must be precisely and accurately monitored and recorded exactly, otherwise no deal.

[Togo]

The answer to both problems are in the water. A sea border between mainland Ireland exists and is easily maintained, and the chlorinated chicken smokescreen is just that. You are all getting chlorinated tap water to drink and bathe in.

[willbewhatiwill]

Togo said, "The answer to both problems are in the water. A sea border between mainland Ireland"

It is reported in the news today that the government in Eire suggested a border control only around the seaports of Ireland but the DUP refused this - as it would effectively create a united Ireland, hence UK would have loss sovereignty of Northern Ireland. Check it out.

[fiction-factory]

>This is a b*ll*cks entirely of London's making

Do you mean David Cameron's fault for having the vote or the UK electorate for voting for something you disagree with.

I voted to Remain but I don't see any point in a bit of schadenfreude by those who still hold out for Remain or in hoping it'll all go wrong
so they can say they were right or for those still in the EU to be as unhelpful as possible.

[Togo]

//but the DUP refused this//

Easy Willbe, Theresa just gives em a prod, and tells em that the deal depends on it, or no "dosh".

[willbewhatiwill]

fiction-factory,
I do not hope Brexit negotiations to go wrong - to the contrary even though I voted to Remain.

However, solution to having borderless travel & trade between EU Eire and Non-EU Northern Ireland that will please the EU, HMG, DUP and government in Eire all in the same time is very unlikely to be forthcoming.