News1 min ago
It Seems The Limp Dums Are "mulling" How To Stop Brexit.....
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So essentially they got the wrong answer so they are trying to find ways to ignore it. Why does anyone support this undemocratic party?
So essentially they got the wrong answer so they are trying to find ways to ignore it. Why does anyone support this undemocratic party?
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That would depend on how fluid your gender was Baz.
TTT, as shown by the number of seats and the votes for Lib Dems the support is not great. They seem to think they can attract a lot of people who voted remain. the problem is I believe the vast majority of the remain voters HAVE accepted the democratic result now it is the few remoaners who have not.
TTT, as shown by the number of seats and the votes for Lib Dems the support is not great. They seem to think they can attract a lot of people who voted remain. the problem is I believe the vast majority of the remain voters HAVE accepted the democratic result now it is the few remoaners who have not.
No party has but a single item in their manifesto. Getting a majority gives no mandate to any single part of their manifesto. If parties really believed in democracy their members would get their constituents opinion on each issue before deciding what to do on that issue. But if there was a belief in democracy there wouldn't be parties. Each candidate would be independent.
The 1975 vote on remaining to stay in Europe did not stop people for decades campaigning on getting us out.
UKIP were not undemocratic because they ignored the result of the 1975 referendum. They were entitled to their opinion, and more and more people were persuaded to agree with them.
The only way any party can unilaterally stop brexit is by getting more votes at a General Election. If the people voted for a party that was promising to cancel Brexit, and that party won a majority, then it would be undemocratic.
UKIP were not undemocratic because they ignored the result of the 1975 referendum. They were entitled to their opinion, and more and more people were persuaded to agree with them.
The only way any party can unilaterally stop brexit is by getting more votes at a General Election. If the people voted for a party that was promising to cancel Brexit, and that party won a majority, then it would be undemocratic.
Well, in fairness Eurosceptics did wait for a generation (when did the Referendum party start the ball rolling? Was it 1992 or 1997?), and then campaigned in the wilderness for some 20 years before eventually achieving their goal.
I imagine people support the LDs because there are other things about them that they like, or for whatever reason they cannot support either of the two main parties. I voted LD in the last election because my constituency was at that time a swing-seat and I didn't like the local Labour candidate.
Certainly their attempt to capitalise on people who had voted Remain in the referendum did not prove very successful in the election.
I imagine people support the LDs because there are other things about them that they like, or for whatever reason they cannot support either of the two main parties. I voted LD in the last election because my constituency was at that time a swing-seat and I didn't like the local Labour candidate.
Certainly their attempt to capitalise on people who had voted Remain in the referendum did not prove very successful in the election.
In 1975 we elected to stay in a trading group/area commonly known as the Common Market. Not to "stay in Europe" but in the European Economic Community. UKIP was founded in 1993 so won't have expressed views in 1975. They were concerned with the EU which came about with the changes from Maastricht. It was then clear to all where we were being herded without our permission.
"I believe the vast majority of the remain voters HAVE accepted the democratic result now it is the few remoaners who have not."
I don't know how easy it is to know this, but I'm not sure the general election is necessarily the best clue. It's been suggested that, since the Labour party did so well on an essentially pro-Brexit scenario, then there's no support for the Lib Dem position, but the problem is that the Lib Dems didn't really stand much chance of winning anyway, so a lot of people might have worried about wasting a vote on them -- and you sort of need everyone to either know what everyone else is doing, or spontaneously switch to Lib Dem, for a party with 7 MPs to be catapulted to a majority. It just couldn't feasibly happen; voters can't by definition know what the result is going to be, and therefore can't plan their vote accordingly.
That's not to say that I believe that "the Lib Dems would have won the election, if only voters weren't such cowards", but I know for a fact that I voted Labour rather than Lib Dem not because I supported Labour over Lib Dem but because I thought it was the best chance I had to send a message to May along the lines of: "If you must do this damn silly thing, don't do it in this damn silly way." -- and I'm confident that a decent amount of Labour's vote surge came from similarly disgruntled "Remoaners", if you will. There was simply nowhere else to turn if they wanted their voice to be heard -- I mean probably heard, not just lost as noise in various second or third-place finishes that count for nothing.
That's at least one alternative explanation, anyway: Theresa May went to the country to try and sell her plans for Brexit, and the country, as a whole, said "No thanks" by voting for the other lot. It nearly worked, but luckily for her the parliamentary arithmetic's likely to allow her to push through most of her Brexit agenda regardless of the slap in the face she got in June.
Alternatively, perhaps we high-minded politically-engaged individuals at AB are busy pretending that everyone cares deeply about Europe and Brexit and all that, while the truth might be that many people aren't that fussed after all.
I don't know how easy it is to know this, but I'm not sure the general election is necessarily the best clue. It's been suggested that, since the Labour party did so well on an essentially pro-Brexit scenario, then there's no support for the Lib Dem position, but the problem is that the Lib Dems didn't really stand much chance of winning anyway, so a lot of people might have worried about wasting a vote on them -- and you sort of need everyone to either know what everyone else is doing, or spontaneously switch to Lib Dem, for a party with 7 MPs to be catapulted to a majority. It just couldn't feasibly happen; voters can't by definition know what the result is going to be, and therefore can't plan their vote accordingly.
That's not to say that I believe that "the Lib Dems would have won the election, if only voters weren't such cowards", but I know for a fact that I voted Labour rather than Lib Dem not because I supported Labour over Lib Dem but because I thought it was the best chance I had to send a message to May along the lines of: "If you must do this damn silly thing, don't do it in this damn silly way." -- and I'm confident that a decent amount of Labour's vote surge came from similarly disgruntled "Remoaners", if you will. There was simply nowhere else to turn if they wanted their voice to be heard -- I mean probably heard, not just lost as noise in various second or third-place finishes that count for nothing.
That's at least one alternative explanation, anyway: Theresa May went to the country to try and sell her plans for Brexit, and the country, as a whole, said "No thanks" by voting for the other lot. It nearly worked, but luckily for her the parliamentary arithmetic's likely to allow her to push through most of her Brexit agenda regardless of the slap in the face she got in June.
Alternatively, perhaps we high-minded politically-engaged individuals at AB are busy pretending that everyone cares deeply about Europe and Brexit and all that, while the truth might be that many people aren't that fussed after all.
She didn't try selling anything. She pointedly avoided as much as she could, and threatened the wrinklies, assuming all was in the bag: and got spanked as a result by the voters. Unfortunately the experience seems to have worried her and she appears to be testing the waters re avoiding true Brexit now. Sad really. Luckily Boris is there to guide her.
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