The Enigma Of Socialism

[Khandro]

What is its appeal? Are its supporters ignorant of world history, or of even current politics? In the USSR, China, North Korea, Eastern Europe, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Venezuela it has led variously to the suppression of free speech, the imprisonment of dissidents, state-sanctioned mass murder and widespread starvation - as witnessed recently by the President of Venezuela telling the people not to be squeamish about eating their rabbits.

So what began as a dream of equality ends up with you having to eat your pets!

With all previous attempts at Socialism having patently failed, why did nearly 13 million of the population vote for Jeremy Corbyn last June, are they unaware of the suffering and misery which Socialism has unleashed on the world?

[anotheoldgit]

Nazi

/// a member of the National 'SOCIALIST' German Workers'
Party. ///
And didn't their leader promise the people what they wanted to hear?

An end to inflation, full employment, the building of the Autobahns, with a 'People's car chucked in for good measure?

Ah! The Enigma Of Socialism.

[mikey4444]

Chris...please expand on the "many very nasty people indeed- total nutters" theme ?

[ToraToraTora]

get your head out of cloud 9 mikey, Labour are riddled with anti semites, they support various terror groups, have nasty names for anyone not "on message", run a bullying culture even among their own MPs. Oh and of course there's this sort of thing: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4936838/Hang-Tories-Effigies-hung-near-Tory-conference.html

[kvalidir]

Whereas the Tories atrocious and inhumane benefits sanctions of disabled people coupled with the 'bedroom tax' resulted in real people hanging from bridges- far preferable obviously :/

[dannyk13]

// in real people hanging from bridges//
And your proof of this is?

[ToraToraTora]

you mean the tories make it more difficult to give away free money to WSS? Anyway I was merely answering mikeys question about about Labour.

[jim360]

There have been a few stories of suicides prompted by the bedroom tax:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3411856/Mother-writes-letter-David-Cameron-hanged-facing-eviction-home-Bedroom-Tax-16-year-old-son-killed-himself.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/stephanie-bottrill-who-blamed-the-bedroom-tax-for-her-suicide-had-history-of-depression-inquest-9664921.html

It seems certain (eg see the second article) that there had to be underlying mental health issues in both cases, but the manner in which the benefit was administered has certainly been characterised by far too much officialdom and far too little compassion for circumstances.

[dannyk13]

Jim were these suicides found hanging from bridges?

[jackthehat]

Pssstttt......Don't call it 'The Bedroom Tax'.....TGT pretends not to understand what that is.

Socialism/Communism are 'ideal' systems and take no account whatsoever of human nature and so are doomed to failure.

[kvalidir]

DannyK13- Please see ( in no particular order):-

http://archive.is/j0nAF
http://calumslist.org/
https://streetdemocracy.wordpress.com/this-is-what-austerity-looks-like-suicides-due-to-bedroom-taxbenefit-capshardship/
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn28499-analysis-links-590-suicides-to-push-to-get-disabled-working/

I've tried to be reasonably across the board here in terms of affiliation of sites and publications, but it's such a well known thing that a quick google on your part will hold that out, it's been extensively researched and covered. I'm genuinely surprised you even questioned it.

[Old_Geezer]

Nazi used the word socialist in order to garner votes. Fake news/propaganda. They were not socialist in reality. A little like nations with socialist in their name today.

I'd suggest they were muddling the two things too, ygritte, but outside of the UK they seem to use the terms interchangeably, for some reason.

[mikey4444]

TTT...to be honest your reply was strong on hyperbole and a bit light on facts.

Despite what you say, there is no evidence of wide-spread issues of that kind n the Labour Party, any more than it is in the Tory Party.

But it doesn't seem to matter. We are on the eve of the Tory Conference, and we shall have to see what issues they will address, to stop their slide in popularity. We have already had some movement on Student Fees, and some more funds for the Help to Buy scheme, although its rather puzzling that these issues were not addressed in the June Election.

That Magic Money Tree will be quivering with apprehension over he next few days.

[Old_Geezer]

Socialism is perfectly capable of taking account of human nature. They just don't allow it to run free and create unreasonably large differences between those well of and those used to make the well off wealthy.

[dannyk13]

kvalidir, I questioned your vision of people hanging from bridges

[naomi24]

//Jim has it right here. The reason that Labour gained seats and votes in June, was because an increasing number of people are acting against the Tories.//

So the reason Labour gained seats was not because their policies are so wonderful but because they’re not the Tories. That’s some admission from Mikey.

To answer the question, Socialism appeals only to those who have never lived under, or experienced first-hand, the workings and the results of a Socialist regime. Their naively rosy notions of fairness and equality are just that – naively rosy notions – which is why such regimes inevitably and invariably collapse. Those who have had it soon learn that they don't want it. Take note Labourites!!

[ToraToraTora]

"Don't call it 'The Bedroom Tax" - well it isn't a tax is it? I have bedrooms and I'm not charged any sort of levy!

[anotheoldgit]

Old_Geezer
/// Nazi used the word socialist in order to garner votes. Fake news/propaganda ///

So that's what it was eh OG?

Well it seemed to work and the people voted them in, and they delivered their promises, as regards full employment and the end to the huge inflation, and that wasn't fake news and propaganda.

[anotheoldgit]

mikey4444

/// That Magic Money Tree will be quivering with apprehension over he next few days. ///

Better than quivering with apprehension over he next five years.