The Enigma Of Socialism

[Khandro]

What is its appeal? Are its supporters ignorant of world history, or of even current politics? In the USSR, China, North Korea, Eastern Europe, Cuba, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Venezuela it has led variously to the suppression of free speech, the imprisonment of dissidents, state-sanctioned mass murder and widespread starvation - as witnessed recently by the President of Venezuela telling the people not to be squeamish about eating their rabbits.

So what began as a dream of equality ends up with you having to eat your pets!

With all previous attempts at Socialism having patently failed, why did nearly 13 million of the population vote for Jeremy Corbyn last June, are they unaware of the suffering and misery which Socialism has unleashed on the world?

[ToraToraTora]

mikey mikey me old china, Saint Tony and co were the psuedo Tories mate not the real ones. If I'm used to a real Rolex why would I celebrate a fake one?

[mikey4444]

So if the Labour administration of post 1997 was so like the Tories, why wasn't any Tory bigwigs saying so at the time ?

You are ploughing a lonely furrow with this refusal to acknowledge the full impact of Major's defeat.

It will happen again.

[ToraToraTora]

they did, who was Saint Tony's early guest at no 10, yep TGL herself, Tony was a huge admirer, wake up and smell the coffee mikey. Tony slaughtered the sacred cows of labour and impersonated the Tories. Even old Labour accept that.

[mikey4444]

Even if that was true TTT, its not true now is it ?

There is now clear blue water between Labour and the Tories, and there was in June. So when Labour gained 30 seats and the Tories lost 13, it wasn't because Corbyn was trying to pretend to be Attila the Hen, was it ?

[ToraToraTora]

of course it's not true now, Labour is real Labour again, that's why they can't win. You seem to be starting to accept that Saint Tony and co were not really Labour, that's a positive step.

[sp1814]

TTT

It's a mistake to think of New Labour as faux-Tories.

What New Labour did (successfully) was redraw the political map, claiming the centre - not the 'right'.

This is what Cameron subsequently learned...the country was tired of left vs. right. We started moving towards the liberalism of the centre. This is why there were so many social changes prompted by liberalism (with a small 'L') in the mid 90s.

Of course, that all changed again in the 00s, and we're back with Left vs. Right.

By the 20s it may very well change again...

That might be a moot point with Trump vs. Kim Jong-un preparing us for WWWIII via Twitter.

[sp1814]

khandro

You wrote:

"he even wore a Lenin hat for Pete's sake!"

And on that bombshell...

[mikey4444]

TTT...I am accepting nothing of the sort,

Yes, the Blair years were Labour seizing the centre ground, but that didn't make them Tories....see SP's post above.

But this isn't 1997, its 20 years later, and the Tories support is slipping, and its slipping for all the reasons that Gromit gave earlier at 17:27.

[Khandro]

I'm closing for the night and looking back, no single Labour voter has answered the question [of Socialism] "What is its appeal ?"
I am encouraged though, that reading between the lines, it seems that at least one (jim) may hesitate before voting for Corbyn again.

[naomi24]

Krom/Jim, for all your bluster neither of you has experienced life under the socialist/communist regimes. When you have, come back and tell us all about it.

[Kromovaracun]

^ Not read a damn word.

[Kromovaracun]

//no single Labour voter has answered the question [of Socialism] "What is its appeal ?" //

I've never voted Labour, but I feel I gave you a pretty reasonable answer on page 1, as did Gromit later.

[naomi24]

Krom @ 07:29, I read every word.

[Khandro]

Kromo; So we're still here, good morning! Yes you did give a good summing up of the status quo and I acknowledged that at 11:18

So what you are saying (as am I) is that the younger voters based their decision to vote for Corbyn on a combination of a lack of knowledge the glaring examples of history, and a trust in his lies and impossible promises.
To put it in a nutshell; they were duped by a dope.

[Kromovaracun]

No, I was saying (pretty clearly) that they aren't convinced they are voting for Venezuelan or Albanian style socialism, and they were voting for Corbyn because he's the *only one* of the major parties offering to help.

But sure. Stick with "they're just ignorant and gullible" if that makes you feel better.

[Khandro]

It doesn't make me feel better - why should it? But I think there's more than a grain of truth there.

[ToraToraTora]

Mikey, even your mate Murdoch supported The psuedo Tories in 1997, what does that tell you?

[Khandro]

// Socialism is about interaction and integration //

Examples please, or is this a bit more pie in the sky?

[mikey4444]

"why did nearly 13 million of the population vote for Jeremy Corbyn last June ? "

Today, Parliament is going to debate the rollout of Universal Credit, amid continuing calls for changes to the way the government's flagship welfare programme is working, and May could lose this debate.

That is just one reason why 12,878,460 voted Labour in June and there are plenty of others.