"dementia Tax"

[Khandro]

As much as I abhor the thought it, ethically it has to be right doesn't it?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/11/pensioners-told-homes-not-assets-pass-offspring-minister-revives/

[Old_Geezer]

It is indeed a dementia tax. We all pay for health services when we are working age, we do our bit, and then get denied the service when of an age to need them. No utter rubbish about making the young pay changes that.

[dannyk13]

Og, why are you assuming that old people needing to move to a care home are suffering from dementia?

[fiction-factory]

>We all pay for health services when we are working age,

Well some do, and some don't- but overall we don't pay enough. It's a difficult area but we already have asituation with care home costs where the costs can be met from the proceeds of the estate.

Surely Labour which is generally against privilege and wealth inheritance will welcome this redistributive idea- won't they?

[NoMercy]

We pay tax and NI all our working lives, why should we be stripped of our hard-earned assets to pay for our healthcare in our twilight years.

However, those who never work and pay tax will have free healthcare from the womb to the tomb.

Where's the justice in that?

[Old_Geezer]

I'm not. That's what the thread and the article is discussing. You may add other ailments if you wish.

[douglas9401]

'Right, somebody get out there and make a futile career sacrifice to draw fire from Theresa while she stumbles from drama to crisis via ENT.'

[Old_Geezer]

Justice is tempered by the fact that it is difficult, if not impossible the separate those who didn't contribute from choice, from them who were thwarted all the time (perhaps because a government wouldn't pay pension until they were 773 years old and so they had to stay in employment rather than release the job position) when they tried to find a job.

One has to assume the number of freeloaders is small, and the cost of weeding them out unjustifiable, and we need to show compassion to those in trouble anyway. Overall we live with the small percentage of takers, and accept it is as near to justice as we can get.

[Old_Geezer]

...TO separate...
>:-(

[mikey4444]

Khandro...I am tempted to agree with you on this. Assets in all forms should be used to pay for care in old age. There shouldn't be any "right" of the younger generation to inherit something from their parents, that they themselves have not contributed too.

But having said that, the Health Care budget should be robust enough so that people should be assured of good care in their old age. The difficulty is, that with Government cuts biting deep into Local Councils budgets, they can no longer provide a decent rate of care and duty to our old people.

We as a society have to decided if we want our old people to be looked after properly later in life. The reality is that people are living much longer than they used, and we need to have a debate on how we are going to manage that in the future....the problem isn't going to go away by us ignoring it.

[ummmm]

I thought it was the case anyway.

Why do offspring have an automatic right to something they haven't earned, worked for or paid for?

I understand it can be upsetting for our current elderly population who assumed they'd pass on what they'd amounted through their working life to their children but for future generations if they know they have no automatic right to property unless they are willing to be a carer...

[fiction-factory]

If the state pension age is to be increased to 773 or even 73 I certainly won't be working until that age. Many people chose to save towards retirement, often through a private pension, and I certainly won't work full time (maybe just a bit as a hobby) after 60, regardless of the state pension age. We certainly don't pay enough into the state pension in our lfetime to expect to be able to live very comfortably- it's just a safety net

[douglas9401]

Am I safe to assume that these sentiments only apply to the lower orders or are we to see a bonfire of the great estates as we march on to Utopia?

[Islay]

//We pay tax and NI all our working lives, why should we be stripped of our hard-earned assets to pay for our healthcare in our twilight years.

However, those who never work and pay tax will have free healthcare from the womb to the tomb. //
NoM you may not realise this but the NHS is a service for everyone and was actually put in place to help those less fortunate!

If you are lucky enough to own your own home it is an asset and if that needs to be sold to care for you in your old age so be it!

[EDDIE51]

1 to 1, 24/7 care for just a one person with severe dementia costs £3500 to £5000 a month . It is simply impossible for the NHS to fund that . I have worked in care homes and most of the staff are from Eastern Europe. They have asked me why so many care homes are needed in the UK. In their own countries the elderly are looked after by their family even if it means some family members have to give up work to care for elderly relatives. They see it as a duty and can not understand why we are so quick to put them into a home. Possibly there is a lesson there?

[ummmm]

Douglas - no, if they haven't got cash to pay for their care but own a house worth millions then a charge will be put on their house.

Both my grand parents were in a care home paid for privately. His house was sold, not because he had to sell it but because all his off spring had their own houses so he may as well have the cash in the bank himself. None of his children expected or wanted his wealth...they wanted him to be cared for and happy, which he was, as long as you snuck him in some cheeky cakes.

[Old_Geezer]

It need not be offspring inheriting. This is about taking things from the individual needing care instead of letting the welfare/health system do it's thing. If later on, offspring, or charities, or neighbours, or whoever get passed possessions of any sort in the will, then that's a separate unrelated issue. To bring that into the discussion just 'muddies the water'. That is why Jackie Doyle-Price's view is a nonsense.

[pixie374]

//1 to 1, 24/7 care for just a one person with severe dementia costs £3500 to £5000 a month//. It's around £500/£750 a week.
I agree with Mikey, assets are your own for your lifetime. It needs to be paid for somehow. Either people pay what they can afford for themselves or we'll just be passing on crippling taxes to our children.

[mikey4444]

Eddie....the problem here is that so many of our younger citizens think that they are "owed" a lavish lifestyle. I have nieces and their partners who between them spend £150 a month, and more, on expensive Mobile phone contracts and full Sky packages, but say that they can afford to contribute to their works pensions

.......they are in for a terrible shock when they reach their 70's !

[Khandro]

The method which has been used to avoid this happening has been to give your property to your children - or one of them - before 'you rack your cue', and still live in it, though if you do it less than seven years before you go, it doesn't apply. I knew a very wealthy person who did this, he used to say in his late years all he owned were the clothes he stood up in - and they were a bit shabby.

[Old_Geezer]

"Possibly there is a lesson there?"
Most certainly is. That it is unfair to expect a family to cope with such a major issue and that a caring society would ensure all helped via a welfare system.

If it is too costly for the NHS to cope with why isn't it too costly for the family to cope with ? And why, if the NHS is incapable, is this particular health issue "the one" ignored ? The system of social responsibility where all chip in to provide the services society needs, needs sorting instead of just pushing parts onto families to cope, or raiding the individual patient for whatever they have.

This country believes in society helping each other, via the tax system, it is not one of those that says everyone sorts themselves and it's their own fault if they get into problems.