People Being Lambasted For Reducing Their Tax Burden.

[Deskdiary]

Why all the pious posturing from the likes of Corbyn and McDonnell?

Is it now a crime in this country to save money?

As it stands the people named in the Paradise Papers have done nothing wrong - they have saved money through entirely legitimate means, so bloody good luck to them.

There is not a single tax payer in the UK who, if offered a completely legitimate way to pay £50 tax rather than £100, wouldn't grasp it with both hands (if they say they wouldn't they are either liars or there's something wrong with them) so I really don't see the difference.

As is usual when we're talking about people who have so much more money than most, this boils down to jealousy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41886607

[Kromovaracun]

There is a difference between attentively looking for opportunities the law gives you to save a few quid, and proactively influencing what the law is specifically so that you can profit from it.

Most people fall into the former camp (including, most likely,plenty of the people caught up in this leak - such as the actress you mentioned Ludwig). The reason that this problem exists on a financially significant scale - in terms of effectively losing the Treasury income which had to be picked up by everyone else - is largely because of the latter.

[jno]

tax avoidance does not affect 99 % of us

it affects those who have to make up any shortfall, which is the 99%. To sort this, the government could (a) close loopholes or (b) raise tax rates for those of us who pay. I doubt it will have the nerve to do either.

[HansUrbancka]

I consider Tax Avoidance and Tax Evasion as being identical, as both have the same intentions of refraining from paying taxes on income.

The UK Government's official line on Avoidance is..."Tax avoidance involves bending the rules of the tax system to gain a tax advantage that Parliament never intended. "

Hans.

[ToraToraTora]

"By the way does AB members support for tax avoidance include cash in hand payments to tradesmen to avoid VAT? " - you bet I do, the least money I can give to the government to spend on WSS, imigrants, foreign aid etc the better. I always ask for a sans VAT price if I can.

[jno]

Hans, they aren't identical. Evasion is the word used for illegal avoidance, not for legal avoidance.

You can define the words any way you want, but don't be too surprised if the courts prefer my definition to yours.

[New Judge]

To sort this, the government could (a) close loopholes or (b) raise tax rates for those of us who pay.

Or (c) (heaven forbid) actively work on ways to spend less of other people's dosh.

[naomi24]

Islay, sorry to make you ‘sigh’, but I really think people who proselytize about what’s morally right or wrong need to examine areas of their own lives that could, if measured by a similar yardstick, legitimately be deemed immoral. Several examples have been given here.

[EDDIE51]

TTT I presume you mean 'work shy scroungers' by WSS?
In case you had not noticed unemployment is at a 45 year low. So the number of WSS most also be at a 45 year low.
As to Immigrants, EU immigrants are leaving far faster than they are arriving. Illegal immigrants can not register for any benefit as they are illegal and so officially do not exist.

[bhg481]

Eddie - your logic is flawed //In case you had not noticed unemployment is at a 45 year low. So the number of WSS most also be at a 45 year low. //
Suppose there are 100,000 unemployed, of which 90,000 are workshy. The 10,000 non-workshy get jobs, leaving 90,000 umemployed (ie unemployed figure has been reduced from 100,0 to 90,000) but there are still 90,000 workshy, so no reduction there.

[ToraToraTora]

Let me know when there are no WSS eddie.

[HansUrbancka]

@New Judge.... I regret becoming lost by a lot of what now you are saying, when I have always thought how wise were your postings.

Please enlighten me by what exactly is meant in your response at 12.39, whereby you appear to disapprove of Government action to, as you say, "(heaven forbid) actively work on ways to spend less of other people's dosh."
Hans.

[bhg481]

I read NJ's post as being a sarcastic comment - we all know that spending less of our dosh is the best option but the chance of the government doing that is slim.

[Togo]

I think Judge is merely wishing that the people with the onerous task of spending our money, were less profligate. :))

[Old_Geezer]

Since it seems not to be obvious: one's fair share is that one would have paid if the only avoidance one utilised was that deliberately offered by the government to encourage a certain behaviour; and one had not abused any unintended behaviour/process one stumbled upon/discovered that reduced one's tax bill contrary to society's expection that it would be paid. This deliberate going against the spirit that the laws were written and passed, is what is immoral.

[Old_Geezer]

How much any individual feels should be covered by the nation's kitty rather than individuals, is a separate issue: and if any taxes are levied, there will still be folk looking for ways to avoid contributing their responsibility to the nation.

[jno]

OG, while I think that a good definition, if the government has in fact produced some inadvertent loopholes, surely it is the government's duty to close them rather than the taxpayer's duty to pretend they're not there?

[HansUrbancka]

Does the Government want to close loopholes when possible a large number of members are beneficiaries of the present arrangements. ?

Hans.

[KARL]

I rather tend to agree with the sentiment expressed by New Judge and others to the effect that government is inefficient. In fact, a lot of governments' actions (particularly various regulations which the public must comply with by getting checks, certificates, etc.) appear to me to at least in part be employment schemes, not just for government employees but for various "specialists", "experts", etc.

This is why I think it is better to give money to charities than to the (any) government, even though some charities also are top-heavy, but at least you aim at a particular cause/area.

[ichkeria]

Some of the stuff going on here is plainly fraud. Mrs Brown’s naughty boys is one of the most gobsmacking examples.

[ludwig]

Krom // I know I've made the point already, but it really does seem silly to bang on about "legitimacy" when so many of the people caught up in this (like Ashcroft) have hugely significant political influence and have used that influence to define what is legal in their favour. There is a power dynamic here that doesn't apply to someone switching cars. //

That's a different issue. The problem you're talking about there is corruption and abuse of power. Corruption is wrong. Tax avoidance isn't.