It Seems We Have A Fortnight To Tell How Much We Will Pay!

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41941414
PMSL! I can tell you now sunshine, SweetFA, now move on!

[jim360]

Close -- just a few tens of billions out.

[albaqwerty]

'the bloc's chief negotiator'
hah, the man doesn't know the meaning of the word 'negotiate'

[ToraToraTora]

if the PM wants to raise her popularity she should tell this popinjay to go forth and multiply, publicly.

[Gromit]

Somebody had to give Davis a kick up the butt. This endless prevarication is getting us nowhere. The important thing is to get the trade agreement sorted out before we leave in March 2019. So Davis needs to finally do some work done and stop delaying things.

[ToraToraTora]

why do you always back the enemy gromit? The EU have refused to talk about anything but some imagined "divorce payment" - what about all the other stuff? Prevarication is the EU's game. You'd be the first whining if we just agreed to their arbitrary figure based on no logic. evidence or provenance! are you saying we should give them what they want? Yes I suppose you are!

[New Judge]

“The important thing is to get the trade agreement sorted out before we leave in March 2019.”

No it’s not. The important thing is to ensure we leave in March 2019 on terms that suit us (which may be no terms at all). This may or may not be with a trade agreement, but that is not the be all and end all. Quite why the UK agreed to “negotiations” on the sequential terms dictated by the EU (i.e. money, money, money followed by, if there’s time, something else) is anybody’s guess. It seems the follow of that agreement is now becoming apparent.

[ToraToraTora]

bang on judge as usual. We should walk away and leave them to it. No deal is by far the most attractive option at the moment.

[jim360]

I'm just guessing here, but perhaps the people we entrusted to make the best decisions for Britain thought it was, and still think it is, the best thing for Britain to negotiate with the EU.

[ToraToraTora]

yes jim but the EU are not negotiating are they? They have demanded the resolution of one point before they'll discuss anything else. That's like a cabbie demanding £100 up front before even talking about destination, you'd rightly tell them the GFAM and make other arrangments.

[jim360]

Negotiating seems to be an irregular verb, here. When the UK "negotiate" they're meant to stick to their guns and walk away as soon as the EU refuse. When the EU negotiate they're meant to accede to all of our positions...

[ToraToraTora]

not at all jim but how about just putting the sticking points to one side and progressing with the other things that we can make progress on. Then coming back to the hard stuff later. The EU refuses point blank to move on.

[ToraToraTora]

....once again though you take the side of the EU against your own country, what are we to make of that?

[jim360]

Bring back the death penalty, I say.

[ToraToraTora]

....for collaborators?

[jim360]

I just can't take your Vichy stuff seriously.

[Gromit]

The UK are going to agree to a figure somewhere between €20 billion and €60 billion. Anyone who thinks we are going to pay nothing are going to be very disappointed.

[AB Editor]

Can we refrain from the sweary abbreviations please?

[New Judge]

No, it’s not like that at all, Jim.

The EU flatly refuses to discuss anything other than the bill, Citizenship rights for EU citizens living in the UK and the Irish Border. Until these things are agreed no other talks can take place. Concentrating solely on the bill for the moment, the UK could agree to pay (say) £30bn with no guarantee that any trade agreement will be concluded in time for out departure or at all. The bill (if one is to be agreed) should form part of the overall negotiations and not be something that must be agreed up front before anything else is discussed.

The fault with this impasse lies principally with the UK for agreeing to such terms of reference before the talks began. There is no justification for the “divorce bill” being settled in isolation. It’s rather like, in a real divorce, one party saying “pay me £500k and only then will we talk about who gets the car, the house and the dogs”. That is not negotiation, it is setting pre-conditions.

[ToraToraTora]

if we end up agreeing that gromit then I'd be disappointed but I'll live with it if we can divorce ourselves from this douche de merde. I cannot see how we how them a brass farthing personally.

[New Judge]

"...but perhaps the people we entrusted to make the best decisions for Britain thought it was, and still think it is, the best thing for Britain to negotiate with the EU."

I never thought it would be best for Britain to negotiate with the EU. I would were the negotiations to be with any normal national or international organisation but the EU does not fit that definition. It is bound by the sanctity of the "European Project" and anything which might jeopardise that sacred testament is heretic and not subject to normal pragmatism. Accordingly its devotees are similarly similarly deficient in pragmatic negotiation skills. Not for them the tiresome matter of doing what's best in terms of trade and co-operation for its remaining member nations (even though many of them have not too much to offer in the way of trade or co-operation). Or, dare I say it, do they care one iota for the UK which has contributed massively to its finances over the past 40 years. Their overriding concern is the integrity of their wretched project. That's one of the many reasons why so many people in the UK voted to Leave and there should be no surprise to anybody that the "negotiations" are panning out the way they are.