ChatterBank3 mins ago
Morrissey And 'no Go' Areas Of Europe.
On a recent thread, I pasted in a quote by him stating how within Europe there are places which for non-Muslims are "No go areas" (It was only one among a collection of quotes) I actually apart from vaguely having heard the name, knew nothing at all about the man, but have now rectified that;
https:/
Without any evidence to the contrary, his assertion has been dismissed on that thread by more than one person, seemingly because he is who he is !?
To support what he said, may I ask if any woman, wearing normal western clothing with uncovered hair (let alone wearing any form of make-up) would be happy to walk through the suburb of say, Paris-Seine-Saint Denis in the daytime, let alone at night, and could an orthodox Jewish man wearing his required kippah - the small skull cap worn by Jews to fulfil the requirements that the head be covered, and is worn by men in Orthodox communities- enter certain areas of some European cities, Berlin and Cologne for example, and was the statement wrong?
https:/
Without any evidence to the contrary, his assertion has been dismissed on that thread by more than one person, seemingly because he is who he is !?
To support what he said, may I ask if any woman, wearing normal western clothing with uncovered hair (let alone wearing any form of make-up) would be happy to walk through the suburb of say, Paris-Seine-Saint Denis in the daytime, let alone at night, and could an orthodox Jewish man wearing his required kippah - the small skull cap worn by Jews to fulfil the requirements that the head be covered, and is worn by men in Orthodox communities- enter certain areas of some European cities, Berlin and Cologne for example, and was the statement wrong?
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The inference is that no go areas exist, and the authorities accept that.
Ask why the authorities would accept that situation, and Khandro and his mates will tell you it is because they are frightened of the muslims, or need their votes.
So they believe in no go areas even though there is no evidence that they exist.
Ask why the authorities would accept that situation, and Khandro and his mates will tell you it is because they are frightened of the muslims, or need their votes.
So they believe in no go areas even though there is no evidence that they exist.
//The inference is that no go areas exist...//
The implication is, yes.
Further suggestions are that the facts are being denied, or underplayed by governments and the compliant media which are determined to stress the values of multiculturalism while denying any of its possible disadvantages.
I have already given you exhibit A: rape gangs in Bradford.
The implication is, yes.
Further suggestions are that the facts are being denied, or underplayed by governments and the compliant media which are determined to stress the values of multiculturalism while denying any of its possible disadvantages.
I have already given you exhibit A: rape gangs in Bradford.
v_e, Happy New Year. I agree that the existence or otherwise of "No Go" areas could be established as fact (given a definition of "No Go area", anyway).
As others have pointed out, for some people at least, No Go areas do de facto exist for fear of all sorts of perceived threats, including but by no means limited to a perceived threat from Muslims.
As others have pointed out, for some people at least, No Go areas do de facto exist for fear of all sorts of perceived threats, including but by no means limited to a perceived threat from Muslims.
Khandro
//may I ask if any woman, wearing normal western clothing with uncovered hair (let alone wearing any form of make-up) would be happy to walk through the suburb of say, Paris-Seine-Saint Denis in the daytime, let alone at night, and could an orthodox Jewish man wearing his required kippah - the small skull cap worn by Jews to fulfil the requirements that the head be covered, and is worn by men in Orthodox communities- enter certain areas of some European cities, Berlin and Cologne for example, and was the statement wrong?//
It's almost impossible for anyone on AB to answer that question unless we have a woman or a Jew who have specifically walked through those areas.
//may I ask if any woman, wearing normal western clothing with uncovered hair (let alone wearing any form of make-up) would be happy to walk through the suburb of say, Paris-Seine-Saint Denis in the daytime, let alone at night, and could an orthodox Jewish man wearing his required kippah - the small skull cap worn by Jews to fulfil the requirements that the head be covered, and is worn by men in Orthodox communities- enter certain areas of some European cities, Berlin and Cologne for example, and was the statement wrong?//
It's almost impossible for anyone on AB to answer that question unless we have a woman or a Jew who have specifically walked through those areas.
To answer your question, we need a woman or a Jew on AB who knows the Paris-Seine-Saint-Denis area, or unspecified areas of Berlin or Cologne whether they would or would not go to those areas.
You might have hit on something - I only know of Paris-Seine-Saint Denis from news reports, and from watching BBC4’s Spiral. As a non-woman, non-Jew, I would be uncomfortable walking through those areas, but for the same reason I used to feel uncomfortable walking down the Old Kent Road at night in the 80s, or parts of Manchester (specifically Salford), Liverpool, and Cleveland now - crime.
So perhaps people have different reasons for being wary of areas, but unless you have visited those areas (or in the case of Salford, driven through it at speed with your car doors locked) - it’s difficult to say for sure whether those fears are well-founded.
You might have hit on something - I only know of Paris-Seine-Saint Denis from news reports, and from watching BBC4’s Spiral. As a non-woman, non-Jew, I would be uncomfortable walking through those areas, but for the same reason I used to feel uncomfortable walking down the Old Kent Road at night in the 80s, or parts of Manchester (specifically Salford), Liverpool, and Cleveland now - crime.
So perhaps people have different reasons for being wary of areas, but unless you have visited those areas (or in the case of Salford, driven through it at speed with your car doors locked) - it’s difficult to say for sure whether those fears are well-founded.
Again, I go drinking in Salford sometimes and walk to Manchester City Centre afterwards without hesitation. That fear you had sp is probably based on misinformation and exaggeration, and not an actual real threat. Violent assaults happen everywhere and when you least expect them. You need to be vigilent at all times, but not get paranoid.
//A police officer was offered a £5,000 monthly bribe to halt an enquiry into the tobacco trade. He was also told to stay off "a Kurdish street."
District Judge Leo Pyle said: "There are no 'no go' areas in this land. There will never be streets or shops where criminals can go about their business with impunity. Every citizen is subject to the rule of law.//
These "characters" certainly thought that they had a "no go area" as protection.
http://
District Judge Leo Pyle said: "There are no 'no go' areas in this land. There will never be streets or shops where criminals can go about their business with impunity. Every citizen is subject to the rule of law.//
These "characters" certainly thought that they had a "no go area" as protection.
http://
I opened this this thread today with trepidation thinking I might be in for a hammering, but it is gratifying how many have taken my (carefully worded) OP seriously, with only Andy Hughes and Elipsis using the 'faulty research' tool favoured by ABers who don't know the answer, but are so full of self-importance that they feel they must say something
It is many years since I lived in Paris, but when I did it was the feeling that I, and all the people I knew, could go freely in any part of it. Really that's what Paris was all about!
My 'evidence' is only anecdotal, but I chose that Banlieue because I read an account by a young woman who described walking there in a summer dress with loose hair and how she had been followed, verbally abused (called a ***) and spat at, and that was in the daytime! She now avoids such places.
The other 'evidence' comes from the divine and much loved, Maureen Lipman, who says she feels now so intimidated that she is considering moving away from England to live in Israel and how she has seen Synagogues (I think in Manchester) that are now surrounded by barbed wire.
It is many years since I lived in Paris, but when I did it was the feeling that I, and all the people I knew, could go freely in any part of it. Really that's what Paris was all about!
My 'evidence' is only anecdotal, but I chose that Banlieue because I read an account by a young woman who described walking there in a summer dress with loose hair and how she had been followed, verbally abused (called a ***) and spat at, and that was in the daytime! She now avoids such places.
The other 'evidence' comes from the divine and much loved, Maureen Lipman, who says she feels now so intimidated that she is considering moving away from England to live in Israel and how she has seen Synagogues (I think in Manchester) that are now surrounded by barbed wire.
I have no doubt that criminal gangs regard their areas as their ‘turf’ and guard it, but I didn’t think that was what we were discussing.
The observation that synagogues are protected by barbed wire also seems off topic. In some areas they are, but so are local businesses and council buildings. That is more a symptom of general crime rather than antisemitism from muslim residents. Churches and Mosques also protect themselves.
The observation that synagogues are protected by barbed wire also seems off topic. In some areas they are, but so are local businesses and council buildings. That is more a symptom of general crime rather than antisemitism from muslim residents. Churches and Mosques also protect themselves.
Khandro - // I opened this this thread today with trepidation thinking I might be in for a hammering, but it is gratifying how many have taken my (carefully worded) OP seriously, with only Andy Hughes and Elipsis using the 'faulty research' tool favoured by ABers who don't know the answer, but are so full of self-importance that they feel they must say something //
You appear to be a little short in the area of knowledge about how Q & A sites in general, and the AB in particular operate, so please allow me to explain -
You and anyone else ask a question, I and anyone else are free to answer it.
You don't get to adjudicate or judge the answers depending if they agree with your viewpoint or not, nor do you get to insult responders because you don't agree with what they say.
I have not used any 'faulty research tool' in my answer. I have met and interviewed Morrisey, and I have a published review of his latest album, so my 'research' is anything but 'faulty' - but the point is, I am entitled, as is anyone else, to offer my opinion on what you have said, that is how the site operates.
Please refrain from your rudeness to respondents, or I will report you for it.
You appear to be a little short in the area of knowledge about how Q & A sites in general, and the AB in particular operate, so please allow me to explain -
You and anyone else ask a question, I and anyone else are free to answer it.
You don't get to adjudicate or judge the answers depending if they agree with your viewpoint or not, nor do you get to insult responders because you don't agree with what they say.
I have not used any 'faulty research tool' in my answer. I have met and interviewed Morrisey, and I have a published review of his latest album, so my 'research' is anything but 'faulty' - but the point is, I am entitled, as is anyone else, to offer my opinion on what you have said, that is how the site operates.
Please refrain from your rudeness to respondents, or I will report you for it.
I think we should leave Morrissey out of this.
There is a difference between "no-go" areas of the type we had in Belfast and (London)derry during part of the troubles until Operation Motorman by the British Army. Those were places where you were physically prevented from entering if you were a member of the security forces.
And then places where people feel it would be unsafe to go, or even places where some people feel it would be unsafe for others to go (are you listening Donald?). Plainly there are such places, as they exist in the mind, but whether one is justified in the belief that one is actually unsafe or not I couldn't say.
Maybe we need another Operation Motorman to clear the air: a mass walking through Oldham by Jews perhaps. Or a mass invasion of pubs on the Shankill by fans in Celtic tops. That would work :-)
Would be better than "Operation Motormouth Strikes Again" by the likes of Morrissey (sorry I tried to leave him out of it but failed :-) )
There is a difference between "no-go" areas of the type we had in Belfast and (London)derry during part of the troubles until Operation Motorman by the British Army. Those were places where you were physically prevented from entering if you were a member of the security forces.
And then places where people feel it would be unsafe to go, or even places where some people feel it would be unsafe for others to go (are you listening Donald?). Plainly there are such places, as they exist in the mind, but whether one is justified in the belief that one is actually unsafe or not I couldn't say.
Maybe we need another Operation Motorman to clear the air: a mass walking through Oldham by Jews perhaps. Or a mass invasion of pubs on the Shankill by fans in Celtic tops. That would work :-)
Would be better than "Operation Motormouth Strikes Again" by the likes of Morrissey (sorry I tried to leave him out of it but failed :-) )
Ichkeria - // I think we should leave Morrissey out of this. //
Since Morrisey's observations form the basis for the OP, it would a little tricky to answer it without reference to what he has said.
If someone wants to ask if there are no-go areas in European cities, we can address that without reference to fading right-wing over-opinionated pop stars, but this thread cannot leave him out, because the perceived dismissal of his view has led to the Question being asked.
Since Morrisey's observations form the basis for the OP, it would a little tricky to answer it without reference to what he has said.
If someone wants to ask if there are no-go areas in European cities, we can address that without reference to fading right-wing over-opinionated pop stars, but this thread cannot leave him out, because the perceived dismissal of his view has led to the Question being asked.
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