Enoch Powell Blue Plaque

[fender62]

threats to rip it down or deface it, what with the churchill cafe business..its getting a little out of hand.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5347425/Row-erupts-plan-commemorate-Enoch-Powells-life.html#comments

[Baldric]

AH. I'm not really interested in your 'easily offended' opinions, but don't let that stop you (as if you would)

[owdbob]

Powell was a classicist wazzock a bit like that other bloody fool Rees Mogg, when he was health minister he encouraged black immigration to prop up the health service, then turned on the people he had encouraged to come here. He was an "educated" racist unlike the likes of Tommy Robinson, but as bad in his own way. As long as there are people out there prepared to defend him it shows that we haven't learned much. You can get a blue plaque for anything these days, so why not one for being a prize ***?

[Ryzen]

If Enoch was alive today, he would be turning in his grave.

[andy-hughes]

Talbot - // I will tell you what it means.

You can't separate all the good a politician did for his constituency from a speech

but you can separate a paedophile from his perceived great music. //

Do you really see a comparison in those two attitudes?

First of all, my point about Enoch Powell's proposed plaque, which is what we are discussing, is that it is going to pinpoint his famous speech, and overshadow his achievements as a constituency MP.

Personally, I have no particular view either way about a plaque for Mr Powell, I am simply putting forward a valid view - that his name is linked with his speech, and that is not my doing, I am simply pointing it out as a fact, not a criticism, or analysis.

In terms of an artist and their art, I do believe you can divorce one from another. An artist's art can be disconnected from their opinions, views and lifestyle as an individual, and viewed separately.

But if you think you can offer that as a parallel for Mr Powell who offered his speech as a politician, confirming it was his stated view as a politician, commenting on the proposed legislation by his own party, then I think you are so far off as for your comparison to be meaningless.

[andy-hughes]

peter Pedant - // //It is when it suits you andy. // someone
//I have no idea what that means,// the great andie H

oh I do andie - a few days ago didnt someone unite Hannah Hauzwell, Daleswoman and Quentin Crisp - nude male model and gay activist ? - now who was that andie?
a juxta position perhaps made in Heaven. One I was keen to divorce at er birth or first mention //

I did explain at the time - and will do so again in case you missed it - my comparison between the late Ms. Hawkswell - I assume that is who you mean - was only in the sense that a level of success and fame came to them without them seeking it, and they dealt with it with dignity and humour.

I also pointed out that Mr Crisp was never a 'gay activist', but you seem keen to either ignore or forget that simple fact as well.

// and then the same poster glowed incandescent with overloaded ire and disgust and spluttered with rage when someone else united the 93 dead at Grenfell Tower and the Holocaust ? - at least they were all dead and shouldnt be....[ that would be me by the way] //

I have no recollection of any reference to the Holocaust in the Grenfell thread - or of me answering it, but I am suffering with flu, so my memory is not what it should be - if you can offer a link to what you - and I, said, please do.

// and that I suggest is an example of one can divorce something when it suits. Just an opinion //

I competely fail to understand why your post makes any conection to divorcing something when it suits. Not for the first time, your post has baffled me totally.

[-Talbot-]

First of all, my point about Enoch Powell's proposed plaque, which is what we are discussing, is that it is going to pinpoint his famous speech, and overshadow his achievements as a constituency MP.


Personally, the fact that Glitter is a paedophile overshadows anything he achieved as a muscian.

[andy-hughes]

Talbot - // And I in plain English, think you are a hypocrite //

That is an insult.

If you want to back it up with some evidence of my perceived hypocrisy I am delighted to see it - but left alone, you run the risk of that being deleted for breaking Site Rules.

[-Talbot-]

Do what you want, being a mod ... you have the whip hand.


It won't change what I think though.

[andy-hughes]

Talbot - // First of all, my point about Enoch Powell's proposed plaque, which is what we are discussing, is that it is going to pinpoint his famous speech, and overshadow his achievements as a constituency MP.


Personally, the fact that Glitter is a paedophile overshadows anything he achieved as a muscian. //

I would not disagree with the last sentence in your post.

But because I see a separation between art and the artist, and not between a politician and his politics, does not make me a hypocrite.

Do I defend Gary Glitter for the odious waste of oxygen that he is?

No I do not.

Does Garry Glitter being a sub-human slime ball mean that Rock And Roll Part Two is not a great record? No it does not.

The difference is this - Gary Glitter does not need to be anything, personally, good or bad, to make great pop records.

Enoch Powell does need to be a man of personal convictions and views in order to be a politician and an MP.

That is why it is possible to separate Glitter from his records, but now Powell from his speeches.

[douglas9401]

Of course he should be put forward for a plaque.

Any tripe arguing the contrary is just hot air from revisionist snowflakes as per usual. It's up to the plaque peeps who goes forward, not some unwashed skiving trot with a penchant for the destruction of everything that doesn't fit with their narrow view.

I'd also like to propose Casa Pedant for a plaque.

[andy-hughes]

Talbot - // Do what you want, being a mod ... you have the whip hand. //

I have told you this times without number, but due to your in-built personal hostility, you ignore it and refer to it every opportunity you can, so once again -

As a Moderator, I am not allowed to remove posts which address me personally, or which post views with which I disagree.

Were I able to remove your insult, I would not do so - it is for others to judge whether it is fair or not, and comment if they wish.

// It won't change what I think though. //

I do not intend to change what you think - if you have good reason, I merely request the courtesy of some evidence, nothing more than that.

[andy-hughes]

Peter Pedant - // I have no recollection of any reference to the Holocaust in the Grenfell thread - or of me answering it, but I am suffering with flu, so my memory is not what it should be - if you can offer a link to what you - and I, said, please do. //

As confirmed, my flu-addled brain did forget your meaningless connection between commenting on Springtime For Hitler and the Holocaust - it was so out of wack that I couldn't retain it even for a day!

Springtime For Hitler is a satire about Broadway - it's theme has nothing to do with the Holocaust whasoever - another of your fantasy connections.

File it alongside Quentin Crisp being a 'gay activist' in your file 'Things That I Dream Up And Say On The Answerbank That Have No Basis In Fact Whatsoever'.

[andy-hughes]

Baldric - // AH. I'm not really interested in your 'easily offended' opinions, but don't let that stop you (as if you would) //

I'm not really interested that you're not really interested, so thanks, I won't!

[fiveleaves]

A Classics scholar and something of a brainbox, but alarmist politics were dangerous and divisive.
Britain has always welcomed immigrants, and Afro-Carribbean immigration was never problem for Britain.
Islamic terrorist was not on the radar when Powell was around and that is the main threat to Britain and the West

[-Talbot-]

Good post, fiveleaves

[Zacs-Master]

Putting up a plaque to EP in Wolverhampton would be a bit like putting one up for Harold Shipman in Todmorden.

[Baldric]

@18:57 Thank goodness, that's saved about a page and a half.

[Togo]

Just put the plaque high up on St Peters church spire and hope they fall off trying to deface it. Sorted.
I notice that the Churchill themed café was mentioned in the op, and the vermin attempts to intimidate the proprietors, but did you know that one Laura Alverez tried to flog them expensive coffee beans? She was knocked back and told that the owners preferred to source their coffee beans from fair trade Commonwealth countries and that Mexican coffee beans were not part of the business plan. Now did you know that Laura Alverez is the wife of (you're ahead of me here again aren't you) of .............Jeremy Corbyn. You have to think don't you?