Everyday Racism Or Sensible Business Practices?

[sp1814]

I’m going for the former.

This is clearly prejudiced behaviour (in that the waiter was prejudging the customers based on their race alone).

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43954750

[andy-hughes]

jackdaw - // If I go to the local Chinese/Indian takeaway I pay when I order, before my meal arrives. I have no problem with that. //

I think that's standard practice for most takeaways, for obvious reasons.

But if your takeaway asked you to pay in advance, but not the next customer who is Chinese or Indian, then that would be racism, and that is what happened here.

[ToraToraTora]

AH: "Perhaps so - but assuming that one black customer running before paying means that all black customers will potentially do the same, is racism. " - what if over say a year 90% of runners were black? would that then not become reacting to a known problem?

[ludwig]

Racism.

[sp1814]

TTT

But this is not what the owners were saying. They said that the reason they wanted payment first was because they had an issue with transients eating at their establishment and then running.

They didn’t refer to black transients, so why not ask for cash from the white diners?

And it’s irrelevent anyway - as a brand new customer, who isn’t a runner, you should expect to be treated as any other customer.

[andy-hughes]

TTT - // AH: "Perhaps so - but assuming that one black customer running before paying means that all black customers will potentially do the same, is racism. " - what if over say a year 90% of runners were black? would that then not become reacting to a known problem? //

No, it would be doing what this restaurant did - assuming criminal behaviour in advance without evidence, based on the colour of the customers' skin.

That is what racism is - judging someone on their ethnicity. It's abhorrent and it's illegal.

[youngmafbog]

SP, you have been highly selective of my posts in what appears an attempt to smear me.

All i am saying is that runners are an issue, if you are a small business a massive one. It is more likely that it is because they were 3 young males in a restaurant late at night.

As I pointed out I too have been refused service based on being a couple of males. Did I go and make a big fuss? No of course not we just went somewhere else.

As to the 'right-on' bit Kval was talking general discrimination, so includes my personal example, not just this one. I would have thought that was quite clear if you didnt have an agenda.

[youngmafbog]

AH, unfortunately it is thinking like that which led to the stop and search being reduced which in turn has increased stabbings.

It is not always as simple and clear cut as you like to paint.

[andy-hughes]

YMB - // AH, unfortunately it is thinking like that which led to the stop and search being reduced which in turn has increased stabbings. //

That is a leap of logic so vast I am not willing to grant it credence by arguing with you about it.

// It is not always as simple and clear cut as you like to paint. //

Except in this case - where customers were discriminated against because of their colour - that's about as 'simple and clear cut' as you can get.

[andy-hughes]

YMB - // All i am saying is that runners are an issue, if you are a small business a massive one. It is more likely that it is because they were 3 young males in a restaurant late at night. //

But that is not what took place is it? The men were asked to pay, white customers were not asked to pay - that's racism, I really can't make it any simpler than that.

// As I pointed out I too have been refused service based on being a couple of males. Did I go and make a big fuss? No of course not we just went somewhere else. //

But if a couple of black men had come in and been served, and it was clear that you were not being served because you were white, not because you were male, I suggest you would have made a fuss, and been perfectly within your rights to do so.

[kvalidir]

Yes YMB 'general' discrimination is wrong, as well, not least because it leads to lack of personal responsibility. Once you start lumping people into groups and saying things like ' all young black guys carry knives' because some do, 'all Romanians are beggars' because some are, 'all girls who wear skimpy dresses are promiscuous' because some are, 'all old people are bad tempered' because some are, anything potentially nice or decent in society is immediately eroded and people are left feeling rightly hard done by because they are judged not by their own actions and deeds but by how 'their group' is prejudged ( often unfairly) by society. Can you imagine being a child and being under the impression you'll never amount to anything because society won't allow you to because you are judged on someone else's behaviour? nothing 'right on' about treating people as individuals and with respect, that's just common good manners and decency.

[Baldric]

I can't believe the number of Folks who are claiming Racism,
It must be hard for you on a slow Newsday to find something to complain about.

[Bazile]

So Baldric- if you went into a Black restaurant and was asked to pay for your meal and then found out that the others customers who are black were not asked to prepay - what would you call that ?

[andy-hughes]

Baldric - // I can't believe the number of Folks who are claiming Racism,
It must be hard for you on a slow Newsday to find something to complain about. //

Personally, I am not 'claiming racism', I am observing and coment in it.

Similarly, I am not 'complaining' about it either and if you read the thread, you will see that no-one else is claiming or complaining either.

I am unsure of the point you are making.

[Baldric]

Ah, the SO Rule,
//what would you call that ?//
Shrewd Business Practice if they had not seen me before,
but under those circumstances, I would be looking for somewhere else to eat, not getting wound up about.

[sp1814]

Baldric/ youngmafbog

If all patrons were asked to pre-pay, it wouldn’t be an issue.

When just the black customers are - it’s racism.

Sometimes racism really is racism. We shouldn’t shy away from calling it out.

[andy-hughes]

Baldric - // Ah, the SO Rule,
//what would you call that ?//
Shrewd Business Practice if they had not seen me before,
but under those circumstances, I would be looking for somewhere else to eat, not getting wound up about. //

I believe you are missing the point here.

Asking unknown customers to pay in advance can be construed as shrewd business practice.

Asking some customers to pay on the basis that they are black, with the unspoken inference that they are more likely to skip without paying is not shrewd business practice, it is racism, and it's against the law.

If people don't get 'wound up' about being treated illegally, then laws are not enforced, and society suffers as a result.

[andy-hughes]

I have cross-posed with SP - clearly we see this from the same perspective - I cannot honestly see that there is another way of viewing this, based on the facts presented.

[Jackdaw33]

Change de disque.

[Bazile]

That's very stoical of you Baldric .