Everyday Racism Or Sensible Business Practices?

[sp1814]

I’m going for the former.

This is clearly prejudiced behaviour (in that the waiter was prejudging the customers based on their race alone).

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43954750

[ToraToraTora]

or perhaps the committee at my work for "advancing black leaders" - that would be racist.

[sp1814]

TTT

Why would that be racist?

[ToraToraTora]

spath: 16:59: I think i have answered that about 50 times above.

[anotheoldgit]

andy-hughes

/// If the restaurant has an issue with skippers, they charge up front with a nice big notice explaining why. ///

Yes I can see that going down like a bomb:

Please note all customers will now be expected to pay for their meal before it is served, due to certain black persons who have in the past run out out before paying".

[bhg481]

Why is it that we ate prepared to accept that some breeds of dog are better at tracking than others and some are better at drug-sniffing than others but not prepared to accept that different breeds of people have different chacteristics? For example, people of African origin are good at running but you don't see many prominent black cyclists. The followers of some religions believe that your date of death is defined the moment you are born - this leads to an attitude of "it doesn't matter what I do, it can't kill me unless my time is now" and can certainly affect driving ;not ability but attitude.

[ToraToraTora]

so you don't agree that it is then SP? please explain, I'm lost.

[sp1814]

TTT

Yes, please explain why having a sign that read “No blacks” would be racist.

Using the logic proffered by you and New Judge, the establishment may have had bad experiences with black patrons before, so why would putting up a sign threat read “No blacks” be racist, but in this case, asking black people to pay before eating somehow ISN’T racist?

What’s the distinction?

[ToraToraTora]

if you can't see that then I can't help you. Ok I'll try, one is an absolute exclusion for no reason other than colour, I think we all can agree that is racist. The other is a precondition based on the demonstrably likely behaviour of said person based on expereience. QED round we go again, I'm off for now will dip into this later to see how far round the circle we have gone again.

[New Judge]

"Pongos! Haven't heard that word since I left the RAF. We Brylcreem Boys were welcomed anywhere."

Erks, you mean?

If all other factors were the same, sp, a young driver would be charged a higher premium. The insurers are assessing the risk based on their experience and they are effectively discriminating against younger drivers as a result. The hypothetical question I posed was to establish whether, if experience told the insurers that black people were a greater risk (and they could do so without breaking the law) would they be justified in doing so?

It doesn't particularly matter because I was reacting to the question posed by 3Ts about whether it is justifiable to minimise your risk based on your experiences as insurers do. Since we don't really know what this restaurant owner based his action on and since it would be illegal here anyway, it must remain hypothetical.

[sp1814]

bhg481

You asked:

Why is it that we ate prepared to accept that some breeds of dog are better at tracking than others and some are better at drug-sniffing than others but not prepared to accept that different breeds of people have different chacteristics?

Because we’re humans.

We are one breed. We are not like dogs, or trees or artichokes. We are immensely more complicated than that.

The African running thing is really nothing to do with physiology or physiognomy. There are reasons over and above that. For instance, running doesn’t require huge investments in equipment and facilities, so it’s something open to even the poorest nations. Also, there’s the altitude thing. Many regions in Africa are at natural high altitudes...training in those environments is advantageous to runnings, both short, middle and long distance.

[sp1814]

NJ

It may be that the restaurant has experienced issues with black people doing a runner before. However, to Emile Wickham, or me or any other black patron - that’s irrelevant.

It may be the reason, but it’s not an excuse.

[sp1814]

NJ

//It doesn't particularly matter because I was reacting to the question posed by 3Ts about whether it is justifiable to minimise your risk based on your experiences as insurers do.//

Nope.

It’s not.

[New Judge]

I'm somewhat lost. Must be the weather:

"of said person" Person's' (Separate, individual entitys with one common factor)

It was one person that 3Ts was talking about. Not Person's' (especially with two spurious apostrophes). The plural of "entity" is "entities". But let's not start correcting each other's grammar, eh?

[bhg481]

sp1814 //Because we’re humans//

But the different nationalities do have different characteristics; Dutch people are bigger than average, Chinese smaller; blacks of African origin are more susceptible to sickle-cell anaemia etc. There are also national attitudes that have grown up over the years leading to behaviour that is sometimes disliked and sometimes admired when people visit other countries (just about all Dutch people are multi-lingual, most British struggle to speak one). If you look at the American athletes there seem to be far more black than white (can't quote numbers) and you can't really put that down to environment.

[sp1814]

bhg481

I am no more a thief than you.

If I say, walk into a shop and the owner assigns a member of staff to follow me around, I reserve the right to find that insulting.

It would be an action based on racist attitudes. We can recognise that there are differences between races, but to assign characteristics based on that is reductive.

[sp1814]

//If you look at the American athletes there seem to be far more black than white//

!!!!!!