Why On Earth Are The Fire Brigade Facing This Probe?

[youngmafbog]

They acted in the best faith with the information to hand at the time. Hindsight is wonderful but surely cannot be used against them.

And surely the main concentration of investigations should be against those installing and those inspecting the cladding first?

Smacks of something smelly if you ask me.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5816629/Met-Police-launch-probe-fire-services-use-stay-policy-doomed-Grenfell-residents.html

[naomi24]

I feel very sorry for the fire brigade. They gave what they thought was the best advice at the time.

[Gromit]

It was bad advice.
We need to know how that bad advice was arrived at, and where the mistake was made, to prevent similar mistakes happening.
Though it is uncomfortable, we now believe that a lot of the deaths could have been prevented in this instance.
Telling people to stay in a burning building for two hours, was way too slow to react to the changing situation.
It is not to apportion blame, but to learn lessons.

[ToraToraTora]

They are looking for scape goats instead of going after the real cause. If they want to look into the fire service they should look at why the building got a fire certificate despite being a fire hazard.

[scooping]

Surely the Fire Brigade should have been able to make their own decisions and act accordingly. If the fire chiefs made bad decisions they should be made accountable.

[naomi24]

Gromit, //We need to know how that bad advice was arrived at//

I think it's pretty standard advice for fires and other incidents in high rise buildings, the thinking being that the stairwells/lifts present a greater danger. I know in City offices, that's the standard advice in an emergency situation. On this occasion the Fire Brigade don't appear to have been aware of the hopeless quality of the cladding and the fire doors.

[scooping]

Same with the Manchester terrorist. The Fire Brigade sat around for two hours because they had been told not to turn up. Bizarre. Couldn't they have turned up anyway. They only had to watch the news to see that bad stuff was going down.

[Mamyalynne]

It has to be investigated, however unfair it may seem - we all know what a wonderful job they do.

[naomi24]

scooping, in fairness the Fire Brigade didn't sit around with Grenfell. They were on the scene very quickly.

[ladyalex]

I am uncomfortable with this investigation of the Fire Service. It smacks of blaming the Social Workers when children are maltreated or worse.
Doubtless lessons will be learned by the Fire Brigade after Grenfell but I would be happier to let them alone to do the learning.

[Gromit]

The advice not to move is based on the assumption that fire is contained in high rise buildings. It is not supposed to move up between floors, and fire halting doors are everywhere.

But it must have been immediately apparent that the fire was not contained, and it was spreading rapidly.

Yet the advice to stay put was still given for two hours. That mistake cost lives.

[naomi24]

They put their lives at risk every day but they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. What a thankless task.

[chrissa1]

My late husband and I ran our own business in the fire and blast proof cladding industry. We had windows , fire doors and cladding that were all tested by the Loss Prevention Council and had a protection, certified and tested life of, one hour.

They were not cheap obviously and most of our products were exported.

What does that tell you? If the fire doors to the stairwell could have withstood a fire and smoke for an hour and the fire service had know this then, they would have obviously recommended instant evacuation. They did not know and did not know about the appalling cladding that was, Not fireproof.

[237SJ]

If that tower block had been an hotel, it would have been evacuated. (I`ve been in two hotel fires and both times, got the hell out although I was given misinformation by staff on both occassions)

[webbo3]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44381957

Blaming the fire service when there are inconsistencies with the fridge mans story.

\\However, in the wake of the fire, Mr Kebede was made a scapegoat with some newspapers suggesting Mr Kebede's fridge had exploded and caused the fire - something that has not been proven.//

so it wasn't the fridge then?

\\Mr Menon said it was important to stress Mr Kebede was a significant witness in the police investigation - not a criminal suspect.//

\\In the year since, Mr Kebede has suffered with poor health and been forced to move home, the inquiry heard.//

\\Mr Menon, who did not outline Mr Kebede's current health issues, said his client was "terrified" at the prospect of giving evidence to the inquiry.//

as hes a witness he has to.


And....
\\Mr Menon went on to support calls for the inquiry to consider whether racial or class discrimination played a role in the disaster, to yells of approval and applause from the room.//

so they built the tower and housed lots of ethnic minorities in it as well as white people, then they put dangerous cladding on it on purpose, the........they mad a fridge explode and catch fire becaue the council is racist.

[fiction-factory]

Why On Earth Are The Fire Brigade Facing This Probe?

Because all aspects need to be looked at fully. Including this. Including the building materials. Including what started the fire (and any inconsistencies in Mr Kebede's statement). Including anything else thought to be relevant.

[andy-hughes]

It is easy to assume that because the role of the Fire Service is being investigated, that a scapegoat is being sought.

An Enquiry is just that - a chance to explore what has happened, from all angles, and find out who was actually responsible, and equally importantly, who was not resonsible, and that means questioning everyone.

Assuming the aportioining of guilt is not the aim of the enquiry, and neither is looking for motives that are not actually there.

[david small]

Personally if the building was on fire I would evacuate me and mine regardless of any firemen saying to do otherwise.

[sp1814]

It's an enquiry. This is what happens in an enquiry - all aspects of the fire need to be examined.

At some point, the building inspectors will be called in, together with the cladding manufacturers, police, maintenance company etc.

The enquiry absolutely has to be comprehensive, and that means looking at what happened on the night with the fire service, because if there's another blaze at another high rise block with similar cladding, the fire service will know to alter their advice to tenants.

[youngmafbog]

Surely if it is "just an enquiry" into the cause it should be experts doing it not the Police. The Police deal in criminal matters so this is looking to prosecute the fire brigade, if it is not plod should not be doing it.

[andy-hughes]

Part of the Enquiry's remit is to explore the potential law-breaking that may have taken place - I would suggest that makes the police the ideal people to investigate, rather than 'experts' who constantly have to ask the police if the law has been broken or not.