Is There Any Good Reason Why This...
News1 min ago
Brexit
75 Answers
Is it not time to face facts ? Mrs May is a firm believer in remaining with the EU. Why therefore is she continuing to pretend she is trying to satisfy the Electorate by being a Brexiteer ? It is time for her to leave the scenario to true Brexit believers like David Davis & Boris Johnson to really lead the exit campaign & get us out PRONTO.
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"Nothing will ever be enough for hardline Brexiters. " - not true, we want what we voted for, in a nutshell, self determination all the rest is obfuscation by the VB/AB, here is my own 3 point plan:
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If it's "facing facts" we are about then we should perhaps face the following facts:
All opinion polls for the last few months have shown that there is a small majority in favour of remaining in the EU.
A very recent poll asking if people preferred to maintain some contact with the EU, forfeiting some sovereignty or at least some say, but retaining the economic benefits,or make a clean break and be fully independent, showed a clear majority for the former, and this majority was doubled among younger voters.
Plainly when people voted in 2016 there was no idea of what "leaving the EU" would actually mean, conceptually straightforward as it might seem. The idea that there is a majority, even a small one, clamouring for us to completely detach ourselves from the EU is a complete nonsense.
However Theresa May has, to her credit, striven to honour the result of the 2016 referendum despite her own misgivings, and despite the cajoling and hectoring of people like Boris Johnson and Rees-Mogg. I agree she has not done this particularly well, but some credit is surely due for persisting with something in the perceived interests of upholding a referendum result she did not agree with.
Another fact is that were the Rees-Moggs and the Johnsons to take over the government and the negotiations, it would make not the slighest difference to the likelihood of a "harder" Brexit.
Johnson is a pretty hopeless case: he and Davis walked away because they saw that their plan for a "no deal" or UDI was never going to work. In his resignation letter Johnson showed his hopelessness by completely butchering the facts about EU cycling safety legislation - showing himself to be either a liar or someone with zero grasp or memory of certain things when it suits.
This is the man Donald Trump (a man also not commanding a majority popular vote) thinks would be a good Prime Minister :-)
Or so he says.
All opinion polls for the last few months have shown that there is a small majority in favour of remaining in the EU.
A very recent poll asking if people preferred to maintain some contact with the EU, forfeiting some sovereignty or at least some say, but retaining the economic benefits,or make a clean break and be fully independent, showed a clear majority for the former, and this majority was doubled among younger voters.
Plainly when people voted in 2016 there was no idea of what "leaving the EU" would actually mean, conceptually straightforward as it might seem. The idea that there is a majority, even a small one, clamouring for us to completely detach ourselves from the EU is a complete nonsense.
However Theresa May has, to her credit, striven to honour the result of the 2016 referendum despite her own misgivings, and despite the cajoling and hectoring of people like Boris Johnson and Rees-Mogg. I agree she has not done this particularly well, but some credit is surely due for persisting with something in the perceived interests of upholding a referendum result she did not agree with.
Another fact is that were the Rees-Moggs and the Johnsons to take over the government and the negotiations, it would make not the slighest difference to the likelihood of a "harder" Brexit.
Johnson is a pretty hopeless case: he and Davis walked away because they saw that their plan for a "no deal" or UDI was never going to work. In his resignation letter Johnson showed his hopelessness by completely butchering the facts about EU cycling safety legislation - showing himself to be either a liar or someone with zero grasp or memory of certain things when it suits.
This is the man Donald Trump (a man also not commanding a majority popular vote) thinks would be a good Prime Minister :-)
Or so he says.
You voted to 'Leave.' 'Leave' means not being a member state.
It is perfectly possible to not be in the EU and participate in its customs arrangements for the sake of expediency. Turkey does it. Switzerland does it. These countries are not member states.
The fact that people are kicking up such a stink about May's proposal - which really is pretty minimal - testifies to how extreme the standards of hardline Brexiters are. They are unachievable. Fantastical, even.
It is perfectly possible to not be in the EU and participate in its customs arrangements for the sake of expediency. Turkey does it. Switzerland does it. These countries are not member states.
The fact that people are kicking up such a stink about May's proposal - which really is pretty minimal - testifies to how extreme the standards of hardline Brexiters are. They are unachievable. Fantastical, even.
Have you ever tried to get someone to implement something they do not agree with? That's what's happening here, Theresa the appeaser is a remainer, thus at best we are going to end up with a mega soft brexit. I hope soon she is put to the sword and we get a proper brexiteer to force a proper brexit through. Yes I'm a Tory but this is more important than party politics and if we have to slay the PM then so be it.
3T, why do you think it is that every single Brexiteer practically flees from the chance to actually implement their vision? The one and only exception is Davis - who appears to have done absolutely nothing whatsoever in his time at DExEU except tell lies.
Why do you think they abandoned the 2016 leadership election?
Why do you think they're so hesitant to force one now?
Because they don't want it. The ERG had 80 MPs at its meeting on Monday - coming up to double the number it needs to force a VONC. They threatened that there'd be a steady drip of resignations day by day - which hasn't happened. Your glorious Brexiteer leader does not exist. They're all mouth and no trousers.
Why do you think they abandoned the 2016 leadership election?
Why do you think they're so hesitant to force one now?
Because they don't want it. The ERG had 80 MPs at its meeting on Monday - coming up to double the number it needs to force a VONC. They threatened that there'd be a steady drip of resignations day by day - which hasn't happened. Your glorious Brexiteer leader does not exist. They're all mouth and no trousers.
"It is perfectly possible to not be in the EU and participate in its customs arrangements for the sake of expediency. Turkey does it. Switzerland does it."
Switzerland is not a part of the EU Customs Union. I'd encourage you to not believe me but check it out because I was only somebody who voted to leave and didn't know what I was voting for.
Switzerland is not a part of the EU Customs Union. I'd encourage you to not believe me but check it out because I was only somebody who voted to leave and didn't know what I was voting for.
The important facts to face are that:
We have already voted and decided to leave, not to end up with a dog's dinner
That it's irrelevant how many have subsequently got cold feet due to the continuation of project fear, etc.
That we don't keep on voting until the government gets the answer it wants; that's an EU trick and has no place here (or anywhere for that matter)
That we understand our nation can not be taken seriously by other countries if we flip flop and fail to follow through with what we started
We have already voted and decided to leave, not to end up with a dog's dinner
That it's irrelevant how many have subsequently got cold feet due to the continuation of project fear, etc.
That we don't keep on voting until the government gets the answer it wants; that's an EU trick and has no place here (or anywhere for that matter)
That we understand our nation can not be taken seriously by other countries if we flip flop and fail to follow through with what we started
I'm talking about the ERG - the group of hard-Brexiteer MPs led by Rees-Mogg.
Between them and the DUP (who must surely be fuming) they have way more than enough MPs to topple the government - plus their cabinet allies have resigned already, so that bolt has been shot. They can't threaten May with resignations anymore. But they haven't done anything. I'm coming to suspect that they aren't going to. Because they're con-men with impossible promises.
Between them and the DUP (who must surely be fuming) they have way more than enough MPs to topple the government - plus their cabinet allies have resigned already, so that bolt has been shot. They can't threaten May with resignations anymore. But they haven't done anything. I'm coming to suspect that they aren't going to. Because they're con-men with impossible promises.
Davis is a pompous ***. Boris has made too many mistakes. Ledsome, Gove or Rees-Mogg - even if only for a year - would be far better. And there's the rub. Get Brexit out of the way and the Party could opt to stick with the new man or woman or go for a leadership election. Would be better if the new leader said they would be there to secure Brexit and leave options open for the Party.
One doesn't have to be labeled a Member State to remain under control of the EU. If terms aren't mutually acceptable because the EU dictates what it insists on and you have to accept, that's not being out of the EU. It's a blind in the hope of fooling folk that they've come out. And that's what May has proposed and trying to force government into accepting.
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