PC gone mad........

[Loosehead]

Now this has got to be PC gone mad, even a PC nut would'nt say BC is no longer alowed! Some Museum Curator has decreed that we should now say "Before Present" and has changed all the signs and literature. Please tell me this is a wind up! Today's Express by the way.

[Englishbird]

I think the papers get a little carried away with the truth sometimes! I can't see us changing BC, I use it and i'm not religious so how can it be offensive.

[Octavius]

In multi-faith societies it is more usual to say BCE (Before Common Era).

[youngmafbog]

BCE - so the world is mad. I'm not in the slightest religous but I'm not offended by the term BC, so what its just a measurement.

Time we all got a grip on reality, religion should be to help the masses an unite surely. This sort of thing brings divide that is not useful to any of us.

Loosehead, was this someone taking offense on behalf of someone by any chance.

[WoWo]

Personally I couldn't give a monkey's either way. As long as we have a frame of reference and you can work something out, it doesn't matter if it's BC for before christ or BPI before present era.

[jenstar]

It's not uncommon for things in museums to be labelled as, say, "4000 years old" rather than "c.2000 BC". I don't see what the problem is.

[Loosehead]

Unclear in the story YMB, I think there is a mindset, usually in a local authority but not this case, that seems to be timid about our own traditions lest they offend. I think often the percived potential offence is non existant. Interestingly on a slightly different subject, the letters page in the Express today has 2 letters from Muslims complaining that Lambeth council's decree that Christmas is now "Winter Holiday" is entirely wrong and indeed only ends up marginalising them further.

[youngmafbog]

My point entirely Loosehead. I really dont think the average person gives a damn, but those that do are of course free to leave our shores.

Wonder if any muslim (or other religions) would change things because I find them offensive if I moved there. Doubt it somehow.

I tried emigrating to the US, but was not taken by their culture. I did not for one minute think I should demand it was changed instead I returned to Blighty

[Octavius]

Hmm YMB, Didn't the West try and change things in a muslim country by removing the Taliban?

[youngmafbog]

That is true. I dont want to get into the whole Bush hatres scene but I think it also had alot to do with that coutry harbouring terrorists who are hell bent on changing our life via the bomb.

[Octavius]

anyway, back to the q.

I am a christain, but even I couldn't give a monkeys really. It is bemusing though that someone in a museum should put 'Before Present' on all their signs, surely most of the stuff in the museum will be before present...? Now if they are using the year as well then they are defesting the object of their argument since the year is dictated by the gregorian calendar and is measured backwards from the year of our lord (ano domini).

[jake-the-peg]

We're not a Christian country anymore and haven't been since the war really.

We should de-establish the church of England. Kick the bishops out of the house of Lords remove the legal requirements for religious education in schools (which I do find offensive) change the signs from BC to BCE and if anybody wants to call it Christmas, Winter Holiday or it's old name of Sol Invictus who cares? St. Stepens day became Boxing day here years ago.

Actualy that's not a bad idea we could shift it from December 25th to the end of the month, have a three day public holiday with New Years Day and lose that awful dead gap where 10% of the country sits in the office nursing a hang-over.

Sounds like a great idea Cancel Christmas!

[Kingaroo]

They can't possibly be labeling things "Before Present" - they'd have to keep updating the sign! I think "Before the Present Era" is what was intended, or, as Octavius mentions, Before the Common/Christian/Current Era.

If I were the curator, i'd have made the change to "BCE" to show my museum was of international class and took a scientific global perspective. Not because I was worried about offending the jews, hindus, confucians, shintos, muslims, atheists, wiccans, etc. who were interested enough in history to come to my exhibit. But because I'm worldly enough to know that there is more history and culture in the world than what the european medieval historians who invented BC and AD knew about.

[Zen]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/4406 702.stm

[january_bug]

Reminds me of Laurie Lee's Cider With Rosie where, on his first day at school, Laurie was told to "sit there for the present", and waited all day and was most upset not to receive a gift!

Surely "before present" is ridiculous, and the "Plain English" people would say that this would mean "past". How is the year Zero, "present" anyway!?! The"present" is 2005.

So, not only is it ridiculous to change from BC, but they've picked something totally illogical to change it to!

Crazy business. Mind you, if the Muslim faith began such a thing we'd have BA, and no-one would know if we meant Before Allah or British Airways. And if the Hindu's started such a system, we wouldn't know which God to choose refer to! Mind you, BC is a pretty daft marker in itself as no-one knows precisely when he was born. But it's as good a point as any to use in a Christian Country - last time I looked that's what we are. It doesn't mean we're all Christian, or that we hate other religions, but that's what we are. It's only a marker anyway for goodness sake, and it just saves us having to change the labels every year to be more accurate.

Changing it to British Petroleum... re-flippin-diculous!

Yes Loosehead - I agreed with you on something. The other thread was a wind-up, this isn't!

[bernardo]

I don't know why you claim "even a PC nut wouldn't say BC is no longer allowed!". The term "BCE" (Before the Common Era) has been in standard and general use for ages. It is only a wind-up in the sense that "BCE" or "ago" would be a better and clearer way of saying "BP".

[january_bug]

Bernardo - again it chokes me to defend Loosehead, but whilst you are perfectly correct that BCE is in common use, BC is not "no longer allowed" and to actually attempt to ban it, or make it illegal (or even something socially unacceptable) would be totally crazy. I must say I thought people were encouraged to use BCE, but that tut-tutting museums who use BC, or writing letters of complaint... that would be a little excessive.

I wonder what the curator quoted in the Express would suggest for Church museums!?! (I realise the church was created AD, but I presume many churches own artefacts that are more than 2005 years old, as benefactors left them to the church in their wills.)

[THECORBYLOON]

I can't see why "BCE" is used when the birth of Christ is used to determine the start of the "Common Era" in the first place and I've read elsewhere that some folk use BCE to mean Before the Christian Era........

[Loosehead]

And more Tmesis JB, scary!

[lynneuk74]

The CorbyLoon - thank you, thank you, thank you.

I am a Christian. I acknowledge that this country is no longer a Christian one but feel that Christians should still be respected and allowed to follow our faith without constantly being told that we should change everything because it may be 'offensive' to others. I respect Muslim's and their rights to celebrate their festivals but get angry when I hear people saying that it is not 'PC' to celebrate Christmas.

As for 'BC' - unless we are going to start using a completely different system for measuring date, we are stuck with the Christian connotations. Year 0 is based (very roughly) on the date of Christ's birth so it seems pretty pathetic to winge about using the terms BC and AD when you refer to the year as 2005.

It is ok for the curator to say all signs should say 'before present' but these will need to be updated every year as, in 2005 something will be, for example 100 years before present but in 2006 will be 101 years.

Using the term BCE may make you feel better but, as the corby loon said, Common Era is about Christ so you are still refering to the same thing.

So, why not go the whole hog and create a whole new calendar system which ignores 2000+ years of Christianity in the world and is instead based on something which nobody can find offensive!!!!!! Would like to see them try.

[january_bug]

Can you EVER manage to speak to me without a bloomin p1ss-taking dig Loosehead!?! Seriously - I agree with you, and still all you can do is make a dig, ignoring the points I tried to make in my post. You're as bad as Dom Tuk and 10CS. Are you the same as them, you can't cope with a WOMAN UNDER 25 having the ability to join in a debate and hold her own. What's your bloomin problem!?!