Are Labour Preparing To Dump The P M ?
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Measles Cases Soaring Across Europe
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The panic of the 1990s coming back to bite us?
Also spreading somewhat in the US too, albeit currently at much lower rates. But measles was declared extinct in the US only 18 years ago, so that it's back there at all is a cause for concern.
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The panic of the 1990s coming back to bite us?
Also spreading somewhat in the US too, albeit currently at much lower rates. But measles was declared extinct in the US only 18 years ago, so that it's back there at all is a cause for concern.
Answers
Still, those infected are easy to spot.
20:56 Mon 20th Aug 2018
Jim, //The rise of antibiotic resistance in various TB strains, which is what's going on there, is an entirely separate issue.//
Not so…. or did you just not want to talk about the rising incidence of diseases other than measles?
From a study published in the Lancet:
//Similar to other countries with low incidence of TB, most cases identified in the UK are in the non UK-born population (73% in 2015).//
… and I don’t believe it is a separate issue. The increase in disease doesn’t apply solely to measles – although since that one comes with a ready-made scapegoat in the shape of Andrew Wakefield’s study twenty years ago it is, understandably perhaps, the most convenient to talk about. Nothing awkward, embarrassing, or un-PC there. Right-ho!
Has anyone asked in what sections of the community these increasing incidents of measles are most occurring? Could it be that immigrant communities are falling foul of disease due to their reluctance to vaccinate their children?
And now we’re told that immigrants don’t import disease but we, holidaying in countries they hale from, may. Careful. With wonky logic like that you’ll have Peter Pedant putting you on his list of deep thinkers and telling you it’s a normal day on AB. "Meazoolz - what dey den?"
Not so…. or did you just not want to talk about the rising incidence of diseases other than measles?
From a study published in the Lancet:
//Similar to other countries with low incidence of TB, most cases identified in the UK are in the non UK-born population (73% in 2015).//
… and I don’t believe it is a separate issue. The increase in disease doesn’t apply solely to measles – although since that one comes with a ready-made scapegoat in the shape of Andrew Wakefield’s study twenty years ago it is, understandably perhaps, the most convenient to talk about. Nothing awkward, embarrassing, or un-PC there. Right-ho!
Has anyone asked in what sections of the community these increasing incidents of measles are most occurring? Could it be that immigrant communities are falling foul of disease due to their reluctance to vaccinate their children?
And now we’re told that immigrants don’t import disease but we, holidaying in countries they hale from, may. Careful. With wonky logic like that you’ll have Peter Pedant putting you on his list of deep thinkers and telling you it’s a normal day on AB. "Meazoolz - what dey den?"
>Has anyone asked in what sections of the community these increasing incidents of measles are most occurring? Could it be that immigrant communities are falling foul of disease due to their reluctance to vaccinate their children?
Yes, PP did- if you look backa few posts he tried to find official data. Maybe you have had more luck finding some Naomi.
It is the case for TB that it is more prevalent in certain communities (Leicestershire has croppedup for example), although whether that's the cause or just reflects poverty I'm not sure . Whether measles follows teh same pattern it will be interesting to find out.
Yes, PP did- if you look backa few posts he tried to find official data. Maybe you have had more luck finding some Naomi.
It is the case for TB that it is more prevalent in certain communities (Leicestershire has croppedup for example), although whether that's the cause or just reflects poverty I'm not sure . Whether measles follows teh same pattern it will be interesting to find out.
The reason tourism is usually an easier way to spread disease is because of the time scale on which it operates. Most diseases don't last very long in those they've infected, meaning that if you are exposed to something for a week while travelling in that week, you are rather more likely to pick up a disease and then take it with you than if you had had the time to shake off the disease where you caught it. Hence tourism is a well-known and well-understood means to carry diseases around the world.
This is not to say that immigration doesn't also have the ability to carry diseases, but it's usually not quite so significant a vector for infectious diseases with short-term lifespans.
Incidentally, TB cases have in fact been, at the very least, increasing at a slower rate than historically, so I'm not quite sure why you felt the need to drag it into an unrelated debate in the first place. Generally speaking, the health of the world is improving. Even the measles spike -- which is very much attributable to Wakefield's irresponsibility and the gullibility of those who took him seriously -- is still small-scale in the grand scheme of things. It is still troubling because Measles and other vaccine-preventable diseases really could have been eliminated by now.
This is not to say that immigration doesn't also have the ability to carry diseases, but it's usually not quite so significant a vector for infectious diseases with short-term lifespans.
Incidentally, TB cases have in fact been, at the very least, increasing at a slower rate than historically, so I'm not quite sure why you felt the need to drag it into an unrelated debate in the first place. Generally speaking, the health of the world is improving. Even the measles spike -- which is very much attributable to Wakefield's irresponsibility and the gullibility of those who took him seriously -- is still small-scale in the grand scheme of things. It is still troubling because Measles and other vaccine-preventable diseases really could have been eliminated by now.
I absolutely do not dispute the efficacy and safety of the multiple vaccines. What I do think (and I remember the situation well) is that the Labour government handled the situation badly in terms of attitude and publicity. There was a definite "We know best and parents are being silly" tone to the pronouncements made at the time. I don't think it helped that Tony Blair declined to say whether his own child had been given the MMR vaccine.
Jim, in normal circumstances that would be correct, which is why, when I go to Asia or Africa I have the relevant vaccinations. However, in recent years, with the huge influx into Europe of migrants from Third World countries those circumstances have changed dramatically. The indigenous people of those regions are not vaccinated and may well be carrying disease – and they are not only travelling to European shores in large numbers, they are rejecting vaccination for themselves and their children when they get here – hence the sudden increase in disease in Europe. It’s not rocket science, really it isn’t.
As far as I can tell everything you've said in your post is effectively unsubstantiated. Just to be clear: the measles cases in the US are overwhelmingly tied to tourism, as are those in the UK and France. The original sources of the epidemic are primarily countries like Ukraine and Serbia; so far as I'm aware, neither of those countries have especially high immigration rates.
It may be that immigration plays a part, but it is manifestly not the dominant factor in many of these cases, and particularly in measles -- which, I should stress, is the focus of the OP. A wider debate about the role of immigration and disease may be reasonable, but in this case I can't help but feel it's a useful distraction from the main issue.
It may be that immigration plays a part, but it is manifestly not the dominant factor in many of these cases, and particularly in measles -- which, I should stress, is the focus of the OP. A wider debate about the role of immigration and disease may be reasonable, but in this case I can't help but feel it's a useful distraction from the main issue.
"The original sources of the epidemic are primarily countries like Ukraine and Serbia; so far as I'm aware, neither of those countries have especially high immigration rates."
I should perhaps clarify that I mean "immigration rates from third-world countries", although currently Ukraine actually has a flat or even negative net migration rate from what I can tell.
I should perhaps clarify that I mean "immigration rates from third-world countries", although currently Ukraine actually has a flat or even negative net migration rate from what I can tell.
Jim, //A wider debate about the role of immigration and disease may be reasonable, but in this case I can't help but feel it's a useful distraction from the main issue.//
The main issue being that suddenly, for no discernible reason, people have begun to mistrust MMR again. Right ….
Believe that if you will and ignore the obvious. What happened to Occam’s Razor?
The main issue being that suddenly, for no discernible reason, people have begun to mistrust MMR again. Right ….
Believe that if you will and ignore the obvious. What happened to Occam’s Razor?
Well, the simplest explanation in this case fails because that is literally not what the data is showing. What happened to evidence-based discussion?
There is plenty of evidence that Wakefield's BS has caught on recently in America, so it's not exactly unreasonable to talk about it still. In the UK it never really went away, either, although as far as I can remember vaccination uptake has generally been increasing in the last decade.
Who knows what caused the latest spike in Ukraine and Serbia? But it's unreasonable to link it to immigration into those countries when in both the net migration rate is negative and not from the places you imagine.
Let me be as clear as possible: you are wrong, and you have some research to do.
There is plenty of evidence that Wakefield's BS has caught on recently in America, so it's not exactly unreasonable to talk about it still. In the UK it never really went away, either, although as far as I can remember vaccination uptake has generally been increasing in the last decade.
Who knows what caused the latest spike in Ukraine and Serbia? But it's unreasonable to link it to immigration into those countries when in both the net migration rate is negative and not from the places you imagine.
Let me be as clear as possible: you are wrong, and you have some research to do.
Scarlet Fever is still there but not to be feared as it used to be. My daughter had it and my ex and I paled on the news, the doctor saying that Strep Throat is essentially the same, a bacterial infection, treated by antibiotics and two days off school.....
As to the outbreak of measles across Europe, I've heard that it is all rather spotty.
As to the outbreak of measles across Europe, I've heard that it is all rather spotty.
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