ChatterBank3 mins ago
"nazis" They Say, But What Do They Know?
The anti-mass migration Sweden Democrats (SD) have promised to reduce both asylum claims and chain migration — or ‘family reunification’ — to zero, and look set to become the major party in today's elections, but the left refer to them as "Nazis" - even on Swedish TV- which is rapidly becoming a term of abuse used by the left against anyone who doesn't agree with their world-view, and I suggest without understanding just what "Nazism" was (or became).
An example of exactly what Nazism was within society is contained in a book review I have just been reading this morning of 'Father and Son' which was a famous and well-loved comic strip in Germany in the 30s and 40s. Its creator; E.O.Plauen received censure in the 30s after drawing a cartoon of a drunk peeing a swastika in the snow, but "in 1944 he was betrayed by a neighbour for disparaging talk about the regime [nothing more] and was sentenced to death and committed suicide the night before his hearing".
That was Nazism.
An example of exactly what Nazism was within society is contained in a book review I have just been reading this morning of 'Father and Son' which was a famous and well-loved comic strip in Germany in the 30s and 40s. Its creator; E.O.Plauen received censure in the 30s after drawing a cartoon of a drunk peeing a swastika in the snow, but "in 1944 he was betrayed by a neighbour for disparaging talk about the regime [nothing more] and was sentenced to death and committed suicide the night before his hearing".
That was Nazism.
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The main problem I have with this analysis is that it ignores what came before. Nazism was, after all, something that properly started in Germany in around the 1920s, and had to climb from thuggish street gangs all the way to power first. If you define Nazism only by the 12-year period when it was in power then, by definition, you're ignoring all the features that allowed Nazis to get there in the first place.
A point-by-point comparison of policies of the SD and the Nazis is probably a little too simplistic, but still, the general rhetoric is not exactly promising: an obsession with national identity, an anti-immigration platform, advocacy of pseudoscientific policies, and the like, all fit the mould. It's also interesting that even on some very specific points there are eerie parallels: a focus on traditional family structures, aggressive increases in provisions for the elderly, harsh punishments for particular violent crimes, and the like, all sound variously reasonable in principle, but could just as well be grabbed from the Nazi playbook too (eg points 16, 18, 19 and 20 of the 25-Point Program). Naturally, anyone who wishes to grab power will need to include such treats in order to attract support for their main agenda.
Nazism in the 1920s was something to be sneered at, rather than feared, but people soon stopped sneering once 1933 came around.
And that is true Nazism.
A point-by-point comparison of policies of the SD and the Nazis is probably a little too simplistic, but still, the general rhetoric is not exactly promising: an obsession with national identity, an anti-immigration platform, advocacy of pseudoscientific policies, and the like, all fit the mould. It's also interesting that even on some very specific points there are eerie parallels: a focus on traditional family structures, aggressive increases in provisions for the elderly, harsh punishments for particular violent crimes, and the like, all sound variously reasonable in principle, but could just as well be grabbed from the Nazi playbook too (eg points 16, 18, 19 and 20 of the 25-Point Program). Naturally, anyone who wishes to grab power will need to include such treats in order to attract support for their main agenda.
Nazism in the 1920s was something to be sneered at, rather than feared, but people soon stopped sneering once 1933 came around.
And that is true Nazism.
Yes, I do read what I write, and I meant every word of that.
The point is that such a measure is clearly attractive in principle, but it rather like finding a rose among thorns, and I feel fairly safe in suggesting that it's the sort of measure that's included to provide a flimsy veil of attractiveness.
The point is that such a measure is clearly attractive in principle, but it rather like finding a rose among thorns, and I feel fairly safe in suggesting that it's the sort of measure that's included to provide a flimsy veil of attractiveness.
Daily Telegraph:
// The Sweden Democrats provide an especially vivid example of the evolution of the new far-Right. The party started in 1988 as a white supremacist outfit, with members wearing Nazi uniforms to meetings. Two prominent early activists were Anders Klarström from the Nordic Reich Party, and Gustaf Ekström, who had been a member of the Waffen SS. //
Rather similar to our old ‘Nation Front’ who the Swedish Democrats nicked their logo from.
// The Sweden Democrats provide an especially vivid example of the evolution of the new far-Right. The party started in 1988 as a white supremacist outfit, with members wearing Nazi uniforms to meetings. Two prominent early activists were Anders Klarström from the Nordic Reich Party, and Gustaf Ekström, who had been a member of the Waffen SS. //
Rather similar to our old ‘Nation Front’ who the Swedish Democrats nicked their logo from.
jim; // an obsession with national identity, //
Are you nuts! have you any idea what has been happening in Sweden over the last couple of decades? and your knowledge of the roots of German national socialism is lamentable, it began in response to the impossibly sustainable punitive measures taken by the The Treaty of Versailles.
There is no connection between Nazism and a duty to protect one's culture and identity from mass immigration whatsoever.
Are you nuts! have you any idea what has been happening in Sweden over the last couple of decades? and your knowledge of the roots of German national socialism is lamentable, it began in response to the impossibly sustainable punitive measures taken by the The Treaty of Versailles.
There is no connection between Nazism and a duty to protect one's culture and identity from mass immigration whatsoever.
I'm glad to see that you've lost none of your usual good manners, eh, Khandro?
I can appreciate that you might disagree with me -- after all, disagreement is necessary to move debates forwards -- but show just a little respect please.
Tying Nazism only to Versailles is clearly mistaken. The Germans as a whole were already angry about that, but only turned to Nazism because of what *else* it offered; and, as a matter of fact, the appeal to national identity was a core part of that attraction.
I can appreciate that you might disagree with me -- after all, disagreement is necessary to move debates forwards -- but show just a little respect please.
Tying Nazism only to Versailles is clearly mistaken. The Germans as a whole were already angry about that, but only turned to Nazism because of what *else* it offered; and, as a matter of fact, the appeal to national identity was a core part of that attraction.
No, it was not core but Hitler did use nationalism to keep support rather than start it all.
There were many things that contributed but mainly the poverty which Hitler and his henchmen put on the Juden, now where have we heard that before?
The problem these days is any Party who is right of centre is labelled far right by the left. This in my opinion is idiotic since it waters down the problem of the real far right who any sane person would not want anywhere near power any more that the far left.
There were many things that contributed but mainly the poverty which Hitler and his henchmen put on the Juden, now where have we heard that before?
The problem these days is any Party who is right of centre is labelled far right by the left. This in my opinion is idiotic since it waters down the problem of the real far right who any sane person would not want anywhere near power any more that the far left.
I thought you might find the the story about a cartoonist being condemned to death for his criticism of the party, by the party, as salient. Those who condemn and execute people who criticise them in today's Europe, are not the political parties, but the real Nazi ideologues. In fact the Muslim Brotherhood for example, was held in high esteem by Hitler.
The Sweden Democrats and other European parties of the right could be said to be actually fighting Nazism.
The Sweden Democrats and other European parties of the right could be said to be actually fighting Nazism.
This fashion of labeling people and organizations in a pejorative manner might lead to many long theoretical discussions which are often erudite, interesting, and entertaining, but, ultimately meaningless. What is of far greater importance, in the practical sense, is what is happening to the country because of this constant surge of mass immigration of people who have no desire to assimilate into our society, adhere to our laws, learn our language, or respect our mores and customs. Instead, they insist upon our absolute toleration of all things theirs.
You could say a lot of things about them, but in practice what they have done is taken a genuine problem and then massively exaggerated its scale, all the while pushing an extreme nationalist agenda.
Defining anyone who is "other" as an enemy is another feature straight from the Nazi playbook.
The SD may not be Nazis, yet -- but they will be, if we let them anywhere near actual power.
Defining anyone who is "other" as an enemy is another feature straight from the Nazi playbook.
The SD may not be Nazis, yet -- but they will be, if we let them anywhere near actual power.
That's as may be, but one could be forgiven for thinking that you are bringing this up primarily as a distraction. The SD are a topic for discussion separate from the mess that is the current Labour party.
Breivik was Norwegian rather than Swedish, but it's to people like him that you should look if you want to see Nazism in modern Europe. It is, incidentally, worth mentioning Breivik because he was an admirer of the SD -- and, again, there are uncomfortable overlaps in what both stand for.
It's not a question of deciding who the "real" Nazis are -- there's no dispute that fundamentalist Islamic terrorism is a threat, but using that as an excuse to excuse, or even to support, equally fascist groups is a grave mistake.
Breivik was Norwegian rather than Swedish, but it's to people like him that you should look if you want to see Nazism in modern Europe. It is, incidentally, worth mentioning Breivik because he was an admirer of the SD -- and, again, there are uncomfortable overlaps in what both stand for.
It's not a question of deciding who the "real" Nazis are -- there's no dispute that fundamentalist Islamic terrorism is a threat, but using that as an excuse to excuse, or even to support, equally fascist groups is a grave mistake.
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