Is The Lady Not For Turning

[emmie]

can she be persuaded at this stage to alter this agreement


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46243745

[ichkeria]

If No Deal there would have to be some sort of hard border between the countries. That wouldnt happen overnight. But it would happen. The economies of both parts of the island would be badly hit. That’s why the organisations I listed above are supportive: because they dread the alternative scenario.
I don’t think in reality there would be a hard border because I don’t think there would be a “no deal” Brexit. But businesses can’t afford to take that chance

[Old_Geezer]

Open to opinion but, most likely we'd leave our side open, the RoI may well opt to comply with the EU demand for a hard border; folk nearby get very upset with the hard border set up by the RoI as they'll need to stop and be checked at it. The RoI and Remainers will try to blame the UK as if an open border agreement could possibly override a decision to leave the EU. The UK will try for the millionth time to point out they didn't put one up, but find it falls on deaf ears of those who want to blame everyone but themselves, and the UK in particular.

[jim360]

As I was pointing out on a separate thread, what isn't right about that is that No Deal imposes, by definition, a hard border on the Island, because Customs Rules would then diverge across the border, requiring a need to check those rules.

[ichkeria]

There was a “hard border” before the two countries joined the Common Market in 1973.
That fact has been somewhat obscured by the fact that the Troubkee caused a different sort of hard border - a security one - to come into effect. And of course it still is the case that each country’s police force cannot cross the border on duty

[emmie]

hence a possible hard border, ok now i sort of see.

[Old_Geezer]

Interestingly it looks like the RoI might want to consider how much loss of sovereignty is really worth to them at some point. https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ireland-contributes-more-money-than-it-gets-to-eu-for-first-time-34815450.html

[emmie]

so if this deal were to go through the soft border would stay in place.

[jim360]

I don't think that would change the RoI's mind about EU membership -- despite the myth, popular for a while, that the 2016 vote would precipitate a crisis, most Europeans are happier inside the EU than out.

[ichkeria]

Yes

[emmie]

i bet they don't like that OG.

[emmie]

but if Parliament doesn't ratify this agreement ROI and NI will lose out.

[emmie]

Many Greeks aren't happy they are in the EU, according to a Greek businessman i know, nor many other countries, they have been sold a bill of goods.

[gulliver1]

Brexiteers, you will have plenty of time to Repent at your own Leisure.

[SparklyKid]

If the EU is so flipping marvellous why did we not embrace the Euro and Schengen ?

[New Judge]

"...by definition, a hard border on the Island, because Customs Rules would then diverge across the border, requiring a need to check those rules."

So indulge me if you will then, Jim. Who will do the checking? I don't mean who will check the rules in an office somewhere. Who will check the goods for compliance as they cross the line?

[dannyk13]

Just on the news, May says her plan is the only one that will work.Obviously she is not listening to anybody.

[retrocop]

Just got to go. Beginning to remind me of the ravings in a bunker 73 years ago,

[ichkeria]

The only plan that will work? It’s the only plan there is

[ichkeria]

There will be customs posts as in the past NJ. And doubtless a lot of smuggling

[New Judge]

So who will man them, Ikky? And what will be "smuggled" that isn't being smuggled at the moment?

I'm trying to inject some realism into this debate (but have failed miserably). All we hear is that there is a need to avoid a hard border and various (mainly unacceptable) solutions to provide that avoidance have been proposed.. But all parties say that they have no intention of enforcing a hard border. We seem to be peering through Alice's looking glass here.

Simply saying "there will be customs posts" (along a 300 mile border with around the same number of crossing points) just doesn't cut the mustard.