Killed A Lot Of Americans. (4)
Crosswords1 min ago
Will It Really Come Down To A Few Votes
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It's almost sad, in a way, because I'm not sure that anyone else has actually tried to deliver on the referendum as strongly as Theresa May has. I profoundly disagree with her interpretation of the result, but as she yet again stands up and tries her hardest to make the case for this deal:
"If I had banged the table, walked out of the room, and in the end delivered the very same deal, many would have thought I'd done a better job. But I didn't play to the gallery, I focused on getting a deal..."
"If I had banged the table, walked out of the room, and in the end delivered the very same deal, many would have thought I'd done a better job. But I didn't play to the gallery, I focused on getting a deal..."
I was too busy trying to type what May was saying as she said it...
In any case, my finishing thought is: are you really so convinced that May has capitulated because *she* was weak and incapable? Are you really so convinced that the UK had a far stronger hand than she made it look? Are you really so sure that the EU needed only to be shouted at a few times and it would bow down to the demands of the Hard Brexit-supporting few?
And, finally, are you really so sure that all the other people you'd wish to turn to, who have either themselves run away as fast as possible, or only ever shouted from the sidelines, or who have shown themselves to be incapable of organising even the most simple of rebellions, would really have done the job you wanted?
In any case, my finishing thought is: are you really so convinced that May has capitulated because *she* was weak and incapable? Are you really so convinced that the UK had a far stronger hand than she made it look? Are you really so sure that the EU needed only to be shouted at a few times and it would bow down to the demands of the Hard Brexit-supporting few?
And, finally, are you really so sure that all the other people you'd wish to turn to, who have either themselves run away as fast as possible, or only ever shouted from the sidelines, or who have shown themselves to be incapable of organising even the most simple of rebellions, would really have done the job you wanted?
Sorry Jackdaw but I don't believe there is anyone either in Government or Opposition who could have got much more out of the E.U..This deal is probably the best we are going to get so it's either this deal or no deal or possibly now following the ECJ pronouncing that article 50 can be reversed remaining in the E.U..Second referendum anyone?
If we walk away we risk jeopardising the trade deals and links we have in place.Just in time supply routes will be compromised and thus jobs and imports and exports put at risk.A deal ,although not what everybody would have wanted,gives businesses a chance to remain operational while negotiating new deals for future trade links.
well we will know in a weeks time whichever way it goes. I personally want an out vote and if that means No Deal then so be it, not this idea that you put things to the people or Parliament time and again until you get the result you were after. Like Scottish Independence vote again and again until people are bashed into a yes vote.
“…so it is zacs, but i am keeping my fingers crossed for a No Deal vote,”
As I explained the other day, emmie, next week’s vote does not have a “No Deal” option. The vote will be to either accept or reject Ms May’s deal. If it is rejected, although “No Deal” is an option, it has not yet been determined what the next move will be. I personally (and very regrettably) believe that Westminster will not sanction a No Deal exit and they will find some way to avoid what will otherwise happen if they do nothing.
“ I just can't get my head around why people want a no deal exit. It's crazy.”
Not so crazy as Mrs May’s deal, Zacs. No Deal will leave the UK completely unbeholden to the EU in any way and free to pursue its own policies and agreements. It will leave us as a “normal” country, in control of its borders, laws, money and trade. The government is scared witless of such a scenario (and the EU is none too keen on it either) because the past two years have been spent – by both sides - devising ways to keep the UK in the Union rather than making plans for it to depart properly.
“…because I'm not sure that anyone else has actually tried to deliver on the referendum as strongly as Theresa May has.”
Mrs May has not tried to deliver on the referendum at all. Throughout she has seen the exercise as one of damage limitation, to be got through whilst retaining as much of the status quo as possible. Her deal reflects that perfectly.
“Are you really so sure that the EU needed only to be shouted at a few times and it would bow down to the demands of the Hard Brexit-supporting few?”
Hard (i.e. “proper”) Brexit supporters want nothing from the EU, least of all are demanding it. All they want is for the UK to regain its status as a normal country. If the EU wants to continue trading with us on sensible terms there is no reason why that should not happen. Dozens of countries have trading agreements with each other. It seems hardly worth mentioning that the EU has an £80bn trade surplus to protect and to suggest that trade will suddenly collapse or be so hindered as to be untenable is, quite frankly, laughable. This country is not in the position where it must take “the best we’re going to get”. If the best we're going to get is considerably worse than remaining a member then I think we can do without the best.
As I explained the other day, emmie, next week’s vote does not have a “No Deal” option. The vote will be to either accept or reject Ms May’s deal. If it is rejected, although “No Deal” is an option, it has not yet been determined what the next move will be. I personally (and very regrettably) believe that Westminster will not sanction a No Deal exit and they will find some way to avoid what will otherwise happen if they do nothing.
“ I just can't get my head around why people want a no deal exit. It's crazy.”
Not so crazy as Mrs May’s deal, Zacs. No Deal will leave the UK completely unbeholden to the EU in any way and free to pursue its own policies and agreements. It will leave us as a “normal” country, in control of its borders, laws, money and trade. The government is scared witless of such a scenario (and the EU is none too keen on it either) because the past two years have been spent – by both sides - devising ways to keep the UK in the Union rather than making plans for it to depart properly.
“…because I'm not sure that anyone else has actually tried to deliver on the referendum as strongly as Theresa May has.”
Mrs May has not tried to deliver on the referendum at all. Throughout she has seen the exercise as one of damage limitation, to be got through whilst retaining as much of the status quo as possible. Her deal reflects that perfectly.
“Are you really so sure that the EU needed only to be shouted at a few times and it would bow down to the demands of the Hard Brexit-supporting few?”
Hard (i.e. “proper”) Brexit supporters want nothing from the EU, least of all are demanding it. All they want is for the UK to regain its status as a normal country. If the EU wants to continue trading with us on sensible terms there is no reason why that should not happen. Dozens of countries have trading agreements with each other. It seems hardly worth mentioning that the EU has an £80bn trade surplus to protect and to suggest that trade will suddenly collapse or be so hindered as to be untenable is, quite frankly, laughable. This country is not in the position where it must take “the best we’re going to get”. If the best we're going to get is considerably worse than remaining a member then I think we can do without the best.
"That makes a no deal much less likely."
Indeed it does - because they have no vision or the courage to take the country in a different direction. They prefer Nanny EU's apron strings to guide them. It makes decision making for them so much easier when they are bound by EU legislation. Infinitely preferable to having to determine what is in this country's best interests. After all, why bother when you know you are unlikely to be able to facilitate it. Best to hang on to a moribund, declining, protectionist bloc. Far easier.
Indeed it does - because they have no vision or the courage to take the country in a different direction. They prefer Nanny EU's apron strings to guide them. It makes decision making for them so much easier when they are bound by EU legislation. Infinitely preferable to having to determine what is in this country's best interests. After all, why bother when you know you are unlikely to be able to facilitate it. Best to hang on to a moribund, declining, protectionist bloc. Far easier.
Jackdaw, //European court of justice’s advocate general says article 50 can be revoked without needing permission of all EU members //
https:/
There's a surprise.....
https:/
There's a surprise.....
"I am confused. If the Deal is rejected then we will have No Deal."
If the deal is rejected and nothing further is done then we will leave on 29th March with no deal. However, MPs voted today that they must make the decision on what happens next. As I outlined above, they will not allow the country to leave without a deal. And since we have been told categorically by the EU (and for once I believe them) that they will not change their stance or modify the agreement, that leaves two choices: have another vote in Parliament to accept or reject the deal and if it is still rejected we will remain.
The EU is secure in the knowledge that we will not leave with No Deal (and in fact they have been all along); they have no need to offer anything else to the UK. "It's this or nothing" they will say, knowing that nothing is not an option for our spineless Parliament. The government and particularly Mrs May have conducted this process with exactly this in mind.
If the deal is rejected and nothing further is done then we will leave on 29th March with no deal. However, MPs voted today that they must make the decision on what happens next. As I outlined above, they will not allow the country to leave without a deal. And since we have been told categorically by the EU (and for once I believe them) that they will not change their stance or modify the agreement, that leaves two choices: have another vote in Parliament to accept or reject the deal and if it is still rejected we will remain.
The EU is secure in the knowledge that we will not leave with No Deal (and in fact they have been all along); they have no need to offer anything else to the UK. "It's this or nothing" they will say, knowing that nothing is not an option for our spineless Parliament. The government and particularly Mrs May have conducted this process with exactly this in mind.
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