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The Sun Newspaper?
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Do you think 'The Sun' newspaper is targeted at those people in our society who are: incapable of independent thought, and unable to reach an opinion on news events without being told what to think by' The Sun Says'? Or, does reading 'The Sun' eventually make you that way?
I guess what I'm asking is, do you think it's 'dumbed down' to appeal to thick people because they wouldn't buy a newspaper that challenged them, or has reading 'The Sun' made them thick?
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Stevie_c2it - I think it's a bit of both. I don't think that ALL Sun readers are thick, but I suspect they are perhaps more easily influenced (in general, again, not ALL of them) than broadsheet readers (in general, although it's of course not rally possible to split people that way). The red tops in general, do very well out of influencing their readers and of keeping them entertained. I bet a lot of Sun readers find themselves agreeing with the White Van Man says column, but I wouldn't like to speculate whether they could have written the column themselves.
For the record, I didn't see anything in the question that gave ANYTHING away about your views on broadsheets stevie, so I'm not quite sure what bazwillrun is on about.
I think you have to look at society generally and when you realise that the average IQ is 100 then 50% of people are below that, so yes unfortunately half the populace isn't too bright. A lot of people are easily influenced by the sort of "Wam Bam" headlines used by the tabloids but I don't necesarily think you have to be particularly bright or dim to prefer a particular paper. The Sun/mirror/star are pretty much identical, they appeal to the most popular things in society because they sell papers, that's all they care about. That's why they cover soaps as if they're news and Football is god. Beware of sweeping beliefs like "all Sun readers are Morons" though, in my office for example there's a chap who's highly intellegent but he buys the Sun and by the end of the day it's pretty well worn. It may be he doesn't want to wrestle heavyweight copy, maybe he likes the sports or page 3 but he's the last person I'd call thick, curiosly enough there's another guy who buys the Mirror. I go for the Express because I like some of the columists and the general layout and I just find the broadsheets to inconvenient to read!
Part of my interest in the question is that I know a number of journalists who work for both the �Red Tops� (including �The Sun�) and a number of �Broadsheets�, and ALL of them are highly intelligent, articulate people with similar educational backgrounds, and yet they ALL admit that �The Sun� is one of the hardest papers to write for.
Partly due to strict Editorial control, and partly due to it being �pitched� at a very specific demographic audience. �The Van Man� for want of a better term. (Thanks January_bug)
The odd reality is that the people who write for it don�t necessarily agree with much of what they put in it, and have virtually nothing in common with the average readership.
So I suppose another question is, would a �Sun� reader know or care if they�re being patronised?
Partly due to strict Editorial control, and partly due to it being �pitched� at a very specific demographic audience. �The Van Man� for want of a better term. (Thanks January_bug)
The odd reality is that the people who write for it don�t necessarily agree with much of what they put in it, and have virtually nothing in common with the average readership.
So I suppose another question is, would a �Sun� reader know or care if they�re being patronised?
Loosehead - haven't you been tempted by the new sized broadsheets? I would never read them before they got smaller, prefering to check their websites instead. But now, I can actually read the newspaper and find it relaxing, rather than a 1 hour struggle with the paper!!!
I've never read the Express - broadly speaking, which side of centre is it? (I realise this isn't necessarily why you personally buy it, I'm just interested to know).
Stevie - obviously we crossed posts there. I personally see a difference between a "Sun Reader" and someone who reads the Sun. In the sense that a "Sun Reader" (and feel free to insert the name of any paper there) is someone who only ever buys the Sun because (s)he feels that it's "their paper" and they're going to like what they read - in terms of content, style, layout etc. Also that they'll identify with the "The Sun Says" editorial column. Someone who read the Sun, is obviously just someone who picks it up every now and then or who, like your journalist friends, reads it for professional research reasons.
I think they'd care about being patronised. I think a lot of tabloid readers very much care about what happens to the country and are genuinely alarmed by the stories they read in the papers they buy. I think many of them feel "I might not be Stephen Hawkin, but I'm not stupid. I like to feel informed and I have my views on politics and moral issues and I don't need things dumbed down for me".
But it does appear that the tabloids do hand out opinions on a plate for it's readers to buy into. Hopefully some, many, or all of them actually tailor these ideas before spouting them off as their own. I'd like to think that they would.
Well I think it's slightly right of centre, often compared to the Mail, somewhat erroniously in my opinion. Interestingly it's owned by one of Tonies Cronies, Richard Desmond, though I think they must have fallen out as they are not afraid to criticise the Governement.
I have occasionally read the Times Tabloid format but I have not been able to find a tabloid Telegraph. I have read the telegraph but I need to be somewhere with a big table to get value.
Loosehead - know what you mean again! The news just isn't the same when it's got my cornflakes stuck to the back of it! LOL The Telegraph is in fact, I believe, the only true broadsheet available (besides the FT). My Grandad feels the opposite to you and I and switched TO the Telegraph from the Times because of the formatting.
I believe the Telegraph is available in small format from WHSMith, but I'm not about to advocate people stopping supporting their local newsagent/village stores.
To come back to an earlier point, I agree entirely that a �Broadsheet� newspaper just like a �Red top� will present its information in a way designed to influence and sway its readership. (Depending on its ownership, who�s paying for advertising, editorial bias, and political agenda etc.)
The general consensus would be however, that a �Broadsheet� reader is perhaps more able to recognize when they are being manipulated by editorial content, and less likely to blindly accept it. The danger (in my opinion) occurs when editors are in a position to use there influence over readers to manipulate and control what they think, as this type of power is almost always abused at some point.
The Journalists I mentioned earlier, one of whom writes for �The Sun� (like most of his colleagues) has little in common with the average reader. Trust me they are unlikely to have been to the same school, live in the same neighborhood, eat at the same restaurants, holiday in the same destination and take home similar amounts of pay. That�s what I meant by being patronized.
The general consensus would be however, that a �Broadsheet� reader is perhaps more able to recognize when they are being manipulated by editorial content, and less likely to blindly accept it. The danger (in my opinion) occurs when editors are in a position to use there influence over readers to manipulate and control what they think, as this type of power is almost always abused at some point.
The Journalists I mentioned earlier, one of whom writes for �The Sun� (like most of his colleagues) has little in common with the average reader. Trust me they are unlikely to have been to the same school, live in the same neighborhood, eat at the same restaurants, holiday in the same destination and take home similar amounts of pay. That�s what I meant by being patronized.
Have been reading your postings in general and am amazed at the utter snobbery which oozes out every pore re Sun Readers and the like.I buy it because its quick and easy to read.Dodge the articles I am not interested in,which I am sure broadsheet readers do as well.Where do people have the time to devour every page of the broadsheets.It takes me to read the whole of the Sun (mind you with my apparent lack of intelligence I must admit to having to look up the dictionary for the big words).BTW Steve I also know a Sun Journalist (no BS) met her on holiday in the Caribbean last year.My husband (Star reader) earns 3 times what she earns.We have been on holiday 5 times this year (Okay 3 were cultural city breaks) and have just bought a house in Spain.No comparison there then to your journalist chums mm!
Buddy, thanks for your contribution, but I would be more interested in an answer to the question, rather than an overly sensitive rant about some perceived insult.
Let me set the record straight, I�ve read �The Sun�, there I�ve said it, I�m not proud of it but I did it, I was young and foolish and mixing with a bad crowd. We used to meet behind the McDonalds at Butlins and look at the pictures.
But I got help, I can help you too. Step away from the news stand, and ask yourself �Should I question what this newspaper is telling me and why?� Well, should you?
Let me set the record straight, I�ve read �The Sun�, there I�ve said it, I�m not proud of it but I did it, I was young and foolish and mixing with a bad crowd. We used to meet behind the McDonalds at Butlins and look at the pictures.
But I got help, I can help you too. Step away from the news stand, and ask yourself �Should I question what this newspaper is telling me and why?� Well, should you?
As I read this post, I noted how everyone has been very careful not to tar all readers of ANY newspaper with the same brush. Observations were made, but no-one once suggested that "all Sun readers are thick".
Still 16 posts without things getting upset and nasty - it's good going for news stevie!! Hats off to ya!
I will conform and tuck the Guardian or the Times or even the FT under my arm in future.Do you think it will give me extra kudos Stevie?(Only the FT depending on the colour of my outfit)
I personally think I answered your original question quite succinctly - covered issues which had been raised (mostly by yourself).
In a nutshell I in my opinion would never have the audicity to pigeon hole people because of their personal daily reading choice.I also think that people are more than capable in making their own opinions regardless of the paper they read.I dont think its dumbed down nor do I think that the journos or the editorials are attempting to brain wash us.I think I can probably speak for most 'Red Top Readers' - we only want light reading and dont need a broadsheet to stimulate us or give us food for thought.We are capable of doing that on our own.If thats thick then I'm glad to be thick.
BTW Stevie I was absolutely not being over sensitive or whatever you said (memory of a goldfish).What does that tell you!!
