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How will TROB - etc deal with far right extremism if they manage to contrive to cheat the people?
How will TROB - etc deal with far right extremism if they manage to contrive to cheat the people?
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//May’s deal allows the European Union to force us into a backstop where we can’t leave. The Withdrawal Agreement as it stands hands a veto to the EU over whether we can leave. That veto is ruled by five arbiters: two from the UK, two from the EU and the presiding arbiter is chosen by lot. So our future as an independent self-governing nation is to be settled by drawing straws. The Transition in May’s deal is a bridge to nowhere. The Political Declaration signed by May and the EU on Sunday 25th November is mere good intentions, with nothing agreed or in a bankable contract.
Let’s look at how we got here. Some 17.4million people voted to leave the EU. Leave. Not half in half out. Leave. What does Leave mean?
May defined Leave in her Lancaster House speech as leaving the Single Market, leaving the Customs Union, no more payments to the EU, no freedom of movement, no jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice and the UK striking our own trade deals. A year ago, May was bullied into agreeing a backstop over Northern Ireland to keep the border free of clutter. This nonsense happened in spite of our clear agreement with the Irish Republic that we would neither of us put up unnecessary clutter at the border. And if we won’t, nor will the EU. If the EU presses the point, the Irish Republic will cave in and loosen their ties with the EU. Their ties to the UK’s internal market are far greater and most of their trade is with us.//
Let’s look at how we got here. Some 17.4million people voted to leave the EU. Leave. Not half in half out. Leave. What does Leave mean?
May defined Leave in her Lancaster House speech as leaving the Single Market, leaving the Customs Union, no more payments to the EU, no freedom of movement, no jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice and the UK striking our own trade deals. A year ago, May was bullied into agreeing a backstop over Northern Ireland to keep the border free of clutter. This nonsense happened in spite of our clear agreement with the Irish Republic that we would neither of us put up unnecessary clutter at the border. And if we won’t, nor will the EU. If the EU presses the point, the Irish Republic will cave in and loosen their ties with the EU. Their ties to the UK’s internal market are far greater and most of their trade is with us.//
Seriously though all of the Brexiteers are always telling us they are not right wing nut job racists and yet apparently if they don't get their own way that's exactly what Chris Grayling believe they will instantly become? He should start a new career as a Magician, and hey presto a baying Nazi Mob! :/
"Blocking Brexit could cause far-right surge - Grayling"
"This could end centuries of "moderate" politics in the UK, he said, as he urged his colleagues to back Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit deal."
Unless he is trying to encourage a far-right wing surge: how can one take seriously someone who contradicts their stated view immediately ?
He is saying, "Don't block Brexit, vote for the plan that stops Brexit and ties us in permanently instead".
"This could end centuries of "moderate" politics in the UK, he said, as he urged his colleagues to back Prime Minister Theresa May's Brexit deal."
Unless he is trying to encourage a far-right wing surge: how can one take seriously someone who contradicts their stated view immediately ?
He is saying, "Don't block Brexit, vote for the plan that stops Brexit and ties us in permanently instead".
We have had the busted flush Hattersley piping up this morning maintaining that the Referendum result was reached because "people" did not understand the outcome or what they were voting for. Do you suppose he thinks that the Remainiacs knew what staying in the pyramid scheme would ultimately lead to? Nor me.
"So which is it? Back this rotten deal, or back out of Brexit? Those are the two choices that Grayling is offering you."
False choice, neither of those are even in the frame. We know the plan is unsupported, and stopping is an affront to democracty and would ruin any remaining trust in the system for generations. The only valid choice, given that the EU insists it will not start renegotiations and be sensible this time, is leaving without a deal.
"all of the Brexiteers are always telling us they are not right wing nut job racists and yet apparently if they don't get their own way that's exactly what Chris Grayling believe they will instantly become"
Erroneously described. Most groups have moderate and extreme members, including the group of the whole population. It's not that all instantly convert to the extreme when they see injustice, it more that there is a population shift towards a slightly more extreme position by all, as they see their right to the democratic decision making being ignored. As the group moves slightly the ratio of extreme to moderate changes, which is enough to give the extremists more sway, and a clear reason to have taken the stance as being reasonable failed; which is something that they will exploit to maximum effect.
False choice, neither of those are even in the frame. We know the plan is unsupported, and stopping is an affront to democracty and would ruin any remaining trust in the system for generations. The only valid choice, given that the EU insists it will not start renegotiations and be sensible this time, is leaving without a deal.
"all of the Brexiteers are always telling us they are not right wing nut job racists and yet apparently if they don't get their own way that's exactly what Chris Grayling believe they will instantly become"
Erroneously described. Most groups have moderate and extreme members, including the group of the whole population. It's not that all instantly convert to the extreme when they see injustice, it more that there is a population shift towards a slightly more extreme position by all, as they see their right to the democratic decision making being ignored. As the group moves slightly the ratio of extreme to moderate changes, which is enough to give the extremists more sway, and a clear reason to have taken the stance as being reasonable failed; which is something that they will exploit to maximum effect.
I wonder whether the Remaniacs knew this was going to happen?
//Merkel and Macron agreed on Wednesday that later this month they would sign a historic treaty to, in effect, merge aspects of the two countries by creating “Eurodistricts” in border towns, share defence, and foreign and economic policy, in a prototype of a “sovereign Europe”.//
No Soveriegn States are allowed...…...but a Sovereign Europe is.
With Juncker as King.
//Merkel and Macron agreed on Wednesday that later this month they would sign a historic treaty to, in effect, merge aspects of the two countries by creating “Eurodistricts” in border towns, share defence, and foreign and economic policy, in a prototype of a “sovereign Europe”.//
No Soveriegn States are allowed...…...but a Sovereign Europe is.
With Juncker as King.
jim:"Hunt's point was made in support of May's deal, to which you've already said that you are so opposed that you'd rather stay in the EU. So which is it? Back this rotten deal, or back out of Brexit? Those are the two choices that Grayling is offering you. " - strange interpretation jim, he is saying that if brexit is blocked it will see the rise of extremism. I don't see where he offers the choice you mention above. The "choices" are Brino, remain or no deal, I favour the latter ideally.
I meant Grayling rather than Hunt, apologies for mixing the two up. I think Grayling is saying, though, that No Deal is in effect no even on the agenda. Parliament won't support it, the government is underprepared for it, and the entire world is effectively against it. So why should we expect that outcome, even assuming that we'd want it, as you and OG do?
In effect, then, the choice facing Parliament on Tuesday is likely to be between the current withdrawal agreement or no withdrawal at all -- or, at least, that is clearly what Grayling was talking about. I do get that you would prefer No Deal but I don't see how you can expect to achieve that.
In effect, then, the choice facing Parliament on Tuesday is likely to be between the current withdrawal agreement or no withdrawal at all -- or, at least, that is clearly what Grayling was talking about. I do get that you would prefer No Deal but I don't see how you can expect to achieve that.
‘He (Hunt) said thwarting Brexit would be “potentially very damaging” and warned that it was now a choice between Ms May’s deal and no Brexit. This marks a shift in tone, as the prime minister has repeatedly set out a choice between her deal and no deal.’
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// "Parliament won't support it," - they wont have to, it's the default if they do nothing else. //
If Parliament wants to block a No Deal exit then they will have the power, if they move quickly. It would require amending the 2018 EU (Withdrawal) Act to remove the specific reference to 29th March, alongside various other measures, but it is doable.
If Parliament wants to block a No Deal exit then they will have the power, if they move quickly. It would require amending the 2018 EU (Withdrawal) Act to remove the specific reference to 29th March, alongside various other measures, but it is doable.
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