Brexit

[ludwig]

The people wanted it. Their elected representatives didn't. Isn't that the whole problem?

[dave50]

"There is no consensus on how the UK should leave the EU"
The question of how we leave never entered the equation in the referendum. Why do remainers keep saying that we weren't asked how to leave? It's just another way to muddy the waters. It was a straight forward remain as we are or totally leave lock stock and barrel. It's as simple as that.

[Zacs-Master]

Patently, it isn't.

[Kromovaracun]

//It's just another way to muddy the waters. It was a straight forward remain as we are or totally leave lock stock and barrel. It's as simple as that.//

No it wasn't. The leave campaign was openly campaigning on a promise that we'd get a great deal and do so easily:

https://imgur.com/cZR2Hu6

Plenty of Leave voters did so on the assumption that no-deal was unlikely or even that it was just scaremongering. Some did so on the basis that we'd get into the EEA.

[dannyk13]

Kromo, plenty of leave voters just wanted to leave, with or without a deal.

[Kromovaracun]

If you believed you were voting for 'no deal' when you voted to leave in 2016 then I'm afraid you didn't grasp what you were voting for. I realise that will sound 'patronising', but it's true. There really aren't many other ways to say it.

[dannyk13]

Kromo,, at the time of the referendum there was no mention of a deal.It was simply a question of leave or stay.

[jim360]

It isn't up for dispute now that many Leave voters did indeed vote to leave without a deal. What is up for debate is whether this was the sole reason people voted to leave, or the sole means of implementing the result. Actually that shouldn't be up for debate either -- as has been seen it's easy to demonstrate that many Leave campaigners explicitly said, and implicitly assumed, that Leaving the EU would only follow some sort of interim arrangements and extensive negotiation phase.

Leaving with No Deal is only one possible interpretation of Brexit, but it is not the only one. That's a statement of fact, whether or not it's your preferred version.

[Kromovaracun]

Yes there was - it was in Vote Leave's pamphlet, 'Why Vote Leave?'

[dannyk13]

Kromo, and how many voters actually read the pamphlets? I for one never even saw one.

[Kromovaracun]

If you didn't pay attention to what the official campaign was promising, then that's hardly the fault of anyone else, Danny.

[dannyk13]

You really are patronising Kromo. I voted to leave and would still have voted to leave no matter what any pamphlet said.

[jim360]

That it was on the campaign leaflet at all is still noteworthy, is it not?

[dannyk13]

Jim, as I said i never saw a campaign leaflet other than the one the issued by the remain campaign.

[jim360]

Yes, I get that, but you weren't the only person to vote Leave or to argue for it. If other people who agreed with you about Leaving disagreed about how to achieve this then that spread of views can't be ignored.

[dannyk13]

Jim, it is not possible to evaluate why people voted to leave.There are many varied reasons why.

[Old_Geezer]

We were voting to leave with the best possible deal. Since all the EU has been willing to offer us is that we'd pay them loads then stay under EU control more than ever but with our name off the membership list, then the best possible deal turned out to be to just leave, i.e. no-deal.

The hopes and expectations expressed prior to the referendum are not relevant since no one knew for sure how things would go, and the most rational expectation was that the EU would be reasonable and see mutual benefit a priority, over getting revenge for having the gall to want sovereignty back. Most voters will, however, have needed no swaying as they've had years or decades experiencing EU shenanigans upon which to realise we had given too much away and it was necessary to redress the balance.

[dannyk13]

Well put OG.

[hereIam]

^ Ditto.