ChatterBank2 mins ago
For The Remoaners.....
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Are you happy that our dictators are appointed? Really?
Are you happy that our dictators are appointed? Really?
Answers
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"Just as UK ministers are appointed. You really need to stop shouting for a while and get yourself an education." Errr - you need to get the education my old china. Ministers are voted in then chosen. This lot were not.
06:47 Fri 05th Jul 2019
Don't see what the problem is.
AsI understand the process, the heads of the elected govenments of the EU members put forward people to hole some positins in the various EU structures. When they all agree on those people, the process passed to the elected members of the EU parliament.
The parliament then goes through a process similar to that used to comfirm appointments made by, for example, the US president, and if the appointments are confirmed, they get the job.
As far as the European Commission is concerned, the head then selects people for hs team from names put forward by the heads of the EU member states, and those people then go through a similar process in the European Parliament before being comfirmed in their position.
Can't see any mention of dictators in that process myself. Of course, given that I don't read the dictionary on a daily basis, I suppose it is possible that the definition has changed and that I am unaware of the change.
AsI understand the process, the heads of the elected govenments of the EU members put forward people to hole some positins in the various EU structures. When they all agree on those people, the process passed to the elected members of the EU parliament.
The parliament then goes through a process similar to that used to comfirm appointments made by, for example, the US president, and if the appointments are confirmed, they get the job.
As far as the European Commission is concerned, the head then selects people for hs team from names put forward by the heads of the EU member states, and those people then go through a similar process in the European Parliament before being comfirmed in their position.
Can't see any mention of dictators in that process myself. Of course, given that I don't read the dictionary on a daily basis, I suppose it is possible that the definition has changed and that I am unaware of the change.
O-G is absolutely correct. The EU positions of power were supposed to be from the majority parties - the powers-that-be did not like those parties and so went into a huddle and anointed their own preferred people. Some of them have fraud convictions hanging over them for goodness' sake! I've NEVER thought this until today, but, quite suddenly, a German ex-defence minister in charge, who believes in a unified Europe and an EU army has made my hackles rise. Just how much warning do we need? (Alternatively -'How soft and daft are we?) I may be being alarmist, but I am unhappy about this development and the sooner we are out, the better.
huderon: "The parliament then goes through a process similar to that used to comfirm appointments made by, for example, the US president, and if the appointments are confirmed, they get the job. " - the US president is elected by the college but they hardly ever go against the state result. The faithless are rare for the president, more common for the Vice but the US president is pretty well directly elected for all intents and purposes.
Tora I never said the US president was not elected. However the US president chooses the people he (or she in the future) wants to hold important offices of state. Those people may never have been elected to any position in their lives, but before they can take office they have to go through Senate confirmation hearings - if they aren't confirmed by the Senate, they don't get the job.
If that's a democratic process, then the EU process, which in to an extent mirrors the US process, is also democratic. The main difference being that the people put forward for the top jobs are proposed by the heads of the elected governments of the EU member countries.
The heads of those governments agree among themselves on the candidates to be put forward, which will mean there are some compromises among the heads of state on who is suitable for what job, but after that they still have to be confirmed by the European Parliament, which as we know, is an elected body.
Still no sign of what I understand to be a dictatorship there.
If that's a democratic process, then the EU process, which in to an extent mirrors the US process, is also democratic. The main difference being that the people put forward for the top jobs are proposed by the heads of the elected governments of the EU member countries.
The heads of those governments agree among themselves on the candidates to be put forward, which will mean there are some compromises among the heads of state on who is suitable for what job, but after that they still have to be confirmed by the European Parliament, which as we know, is an elected body.
Still no sign of what I understand to be a dictatorship there.
//Still no sign of what I understand to be a dictatorship there. //
Worth watching.
"Inside Europe: Ten Years of Turmoil".
https:/
Worth watching.
"Inside Europe: Ten Years of Turmoil".
https:/
The comparison to roles such as the current Secretary of State for Defense of the US is quite an important one. None of the last four holders of that office was ever elected at all, and even those who had held an elected position had long since vacated it, going back to at least 2000. Nor is this unusual for US high offices.
On the other hand, that isn't very democratic either -- and perhaps even more surprisingly so when the US tends to elect as many officials as possible, even going as far as electing judges. Presumably the point is that, at the federal level, the person held accountable for all federal decisions is the President themselves. But it still is more or less the same set-up as the EU -- where, despite the lack of electability of EU Commissioners, at least the other three major institutions of the EU (Parliament, EU Council, and Council of the EU), are made up of elected members, be they the elected Heads of State or elected Ministers, or elected MEPs.
On the other hand, that isn't very democratic either -- and perhaps even more surprisingly so when the US tends to elect as many officials as possible, even going as far as electing judges. Presumably the point is that, at the federal level, the person held accountable for all federal decisions is the President themselves. But it still is more or less the same set-up as the EU -- where, despite the lack of electability of EU Commissioners, at least the other three major institutions of the EU (Parliament, EU Council, and Council of the EU), are made up of elected members, be they the elected Heads of State or elected Ministers, or elected MEPs.
And I'm sure that part of the US system isn't democratic. One assumes it was never meant to be. But comparing the head of a nation state appointing folk to do jobs under them, with those running a trading group appointing who they wish ? Doesn't really fit does it, unless subscribing to the idea of the EU being a nation with an unelected head of state dictating, needing an army, and an anthem, etc..
Appointments made without the voting of the public, is patronage. The EU is not a private company appointing whomever they wish to the board, it sets up laws for nations. It can't morally behave as if Europe is it's fiefdom doing as they will.
And deciding between the elected representatives who will do what, is one thing; having appointed, unelected heads making their own decisions as to who is in favour enough to join them at the high table, is beyond the Pale.
Appointments made without the voting of the public, is patronage. The EU is not a private company appointing whomever they wish to the board, it sets up laws for nations. It can't morally behave as if Europe is it's fiefdom doing as they will.
And deciding between the elected representatives who will do what, is one thing; having appointed, unelected heads making their own decisions as to who is in favour enough to join them at the high table, is beyond the Pale.
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