It Seems We Have 12 Days.....

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49749465
Who do these tinpot leaders of vassal states think they are? apparently if we don't provide a plan it'll be "over" - great sit on your hands Boris! Let's get out of this omnihole.

[saintpeter48]

Agree, just sit tight and let them come to us. We should've done this from day one, told them we are leaving, goodbye, and come to see us when you've got a deal that suits us, if you haven't, on yer bike!

[Old_Geezer]

We have as long as we want prior to the agreed exit date, although in fairness, the EU would need a day to pretend to be examing any suggestions before rejecting them out of hand.

[Ken4155]

They may be 'tinpot leaders of vassal states' in your eyes, 3T, but they do have the power to scupper any proposal simply by using their veto vote.

[ToraToraTora]

I sincerely hope so ken, that would do us a huge favour. The only viable way now is no deal.

[Khandro]

'Finland currently holds the EU's rotating presidency.'

I hope this president keeps rotating until he disappears up his own orifice.

[Ken4155]

"The only viable way now is no deal." As Boris doesn't appear to even be trying to negotiate a deal of any sort (though he says he is!), i have to agree with you, TTT. Unfortunately.

[ToraToraTora]

don't worry ken, we'll work it out, no doubt there will be issues but they'll get resolved, then we'll be free of the Sith Empire. No deal is what is needed so we can actually do a deal with any and all from day 1. The EUSSR is just trying to cripple us from the start, the last thing they need is a former net contributor demonstrating prosperity outside their influence.

[Khandro]

Boris is playing the waiting game & I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't up his sleeve an assurance from one of the other 27 for a veto on an extension - that would really be one in the eye for the remainer's plan.

[Ken4155]

I think you credit Boris with far too much tactical nous, Khandro. Boris, imho, is taking the same sort of arrogant stance that saintpeter48 @ 09;48 appears to believe in. This "they need us more than we need them" attitude, prevalent in many a mind since the referendum result, is as much a reason for our present state as is the opposition to the result by die-hard remainers.

[Old_Geezer]

Or alternatively he introduces May's capitulation version x.1
We have to hope not.

[saintpeter48]

Ken4155 .... As well as Parliament, it is the stubborness of the EU that is holding us back, they have repeatedly told us that they're not willing to re-open negotiations, so I think that we should play them at their own game. I voted leave and feel we should've just left in the first instance and then opened up negotiations.

[jim360]

As a matter of fact, negotiations are currently ongoing. So this idea that the EU is not willing to reopen negotiations is manifestly false. What *is* true is that the EU is not willing to ditch the Backstop without a credible replacement that achieves the same aim, ie to prevent the need for a hard border on Ireland.

[naomi24]

If we walk away what the EU is willing or unwilling to do is irrelevant.

[dannyk13]

Naomi //If we walk away what the EU is willing or unwilling to do is irrelevant.//
Not strictly true, after leaving the EU we will have to negotiate deals with them.

[naomi24]

Indeed, danny - but equally beneficial deals - not deals to suit them.

[Khandro]

jim, Do you really think the EU is worried about the border between Northern & Southern Ireland?
I live only an hour's drive from non- EU Switzerland & regularly travel across without no more than a glance from the border police. Goods lorries ditto, all their paper-work having been done in advance

[Old_Geezer]

They were given the credible backstop replacement a fair while ago, all it needed was a bit of vigilance and acceptance that no border is 100% smuggle free, : but they realised making out the tech wasn't up to it meant they had an excuse not to budge yet again.

[Bigbad]

Old_Geezer @ 10.14.

Since Mr.Johnson started hitting all the brick walls (so, that’s from day 1, then) and claiming he’s reasonably confident of getting a deal, I’ve thought that that’s exactly what will happen.
A bit of a tweak to the backstop and a claim it’s a good deal.

I hope I’m wrong.

[Khandro]

"Speaking to talkRADIO, Mr Farage said: “What they really fear here is that we become more competitive because it is a global economy and if we become more competitive there will be more investment coming into our country and we will be more prosperous than they are.

“That is their ultimate nightmare and that’s why the backstop was originally put into the withdrawal agreement.

“It was put there to try and keep us trapped inside the European Union’s customs union and single market.

“That’s been the game from the very start.”"

[jim360]

Switzerland is in the Schengen Area, and participates in the Single Market. We are proposing to be part of neither of those things -- indeed, we were never a part of the first. Comparisons with the Switzerland-EU border are facile at best. I just -- why do we keep have to rebutting this comparison? It fails on basic facts.

Also, whether or not the EU is worried about the border itself is rather less of an issue than whether or not the Republic of Ireland is -- and it is. And, as a matter of fact, the EU certainly should be concerned about how the Irish border works, because if it is held permanently open without some measure of control then that would undermine the integrity of the Single Market.

We've been into all this for years, and years, and years. It's sad that you *still* haven't paid attention to the real issues that open borders with the EU may pose.