How Much Force Is Acceptable If Any

[retrocop]

The Coronavirus is now described as an imminent threat to the public. Over night we have four more 'confirmed positive' cases doubling the figure to eight in the UK.
One male,casevaced from China is threatening to abscond from quarantine before the fourteen day Quarantine period is over (Thursday) despite signing a condition prior to boarding the flight that he would remain in quarantine.
Although NOT confirmed as a carrier how much force do you think is necessary to ensure this man can be prevented from absconding and are the NHS staff expected to keep him under lock and key?

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-serious-imminent-threat-british-public-health-secretary-071800398.html









https://uk.news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-serious-imminent-threat-british-public-health-secretary-071800398.html

[Bobbisox1]

I’d like to think they can stop him doing this but I seriously doubt it, other than by force ( which isn’t acceptable ) or otherwise like blocking the exits

[andy-hughes]

I believe he should be detained under lock and key until his quarentine period has finished.

[dannyk13]

As much force as is necessary to ensure that he remains in quarantine.

[Mozz71]

Ah, this is slightly different from the other thread which I read as him being a confirmed carrier.

Armed guards should be deployed if there is any chance of an insurrection from the detained folk. I'm sure most are happy to be home and understand the reasons for the quarantine, and a show of force (rather than a use of it) should be enough to keep the dodgy ones peaceful. If they don't like it, they can always head back to China.

[aelmpvw]

if he was sensible and complied with the quarantine order, no force would be necessary ...

[retrocop]

Mozz
My apologies. I was corrected by bednobs on the other thread and that is why I used capital letters for NOT confirmed on this thread. I wasn't shouting. Honest.

[retrocop]

//if he was sensible and complied with the quarantine order, no force would be necessary ... //

Of course. But as reported he was showing no sense and non compliance.

[Mozz71]

I'll forgive you this time RC. ;o)

[dannyk13]

Bobbie, why isn't force acceptable?. If this man left quarantine and infected someone who later died I can imagine the uproar as to why he was not forced to remain in quarantine.

[shoota]

And the lawsuits...

[ToraToraTora]

for the greater good we need to enforce quarantine by force if necessary.

[retrocop]

//The Merseyside quarantine facility - which was previously accommodation for medical staff at the hospital - initially welcomed 83 UK nationals at the end of January, with further evacuated individuals placed in isolation at the site last week. //

It's hardly a secure premises for a determined inmate.What other regulations have the Dept of Health issued to ensure the NHS staff can' try and compel' the patient to remain. It all sounds a bit wishy washy. I wonder if the Human Rights lawyers are thumbing through their Stones Justice manuals or other appropriate tomes.
ose '

[Peter Pedant]

they said they didnt have powers to detain
but I thought they did under common law

c19 case someone was convicted of a felony at common law for going around or leading someone around town (Lundy I think) with smallpox

and also for HIV and HepB

what about attempt to cause reckless GBH against persons unknown ?

but anyway the Minister involved signed the order ( delegated legistlation ) under one of the public health acts at 7 am

I think all this came up because the school leaver hosp admin said oh no no no
when the answer was oh yes yes yes

(I was the one who advised amongst others that it was lawful for the police to go into the Libyan Embassy after Yvonne Fletchers killers under the doctrine of Hot Pursuit. The F O said - 'no'. I was right and the duty officer at the FO was wrong. they then found they couldnt fire a F O employee for incompetence. no really. They can now.)

Lock and Key - this not new - you had enforced locking up people in hospitals in the 1800s - look at George III = poor or king it dont mean a thing etc

[Peter Pedant]

// It's hardly a secure premises for a determined inmate//

I think they might have police in cars on the outside retro - you know with child catching nets etc
and blow pipes with poison darts etc. and anyway theyare holiday makers not thieves pimps and prostitutes

I dont understand the
I want to be freeeee! ( Queen and Freddy etc) bit
so I can infect others with a disease that has so far killed a thousand or so .....

A paed in Ebola ( the disease not the place) flew to Monrovia in Liberia ( the place not the disease) when he KNEW he had ebola (high temp and direct contact) and basically killed 500 people including himself

honestly there are times when I dont understand my fellow human beings
or if it is AB then most of the time ( ter daaah !)

[Old_Geezer]

Surely a right hook should prevent it ? Or would that spread the disease ?

[woofgang]

difficult one....the hospital organisation may legally be able to detain but do staff who are not employed to detain have to do it? I mean they might have to obey legitimate orders like "keep that person locked in" but if it comes to restraint, pursuit and so on? I mean they aren't employed to do that and are not trained to do it safely.....well some staff in specialist units are but not your everyday clinician.

[david small]

Before the horse disappears over the horizon and the stable burns down. Restrictions upon potential carriers of this virus should be forcibly confined under strict observation. The unfortunate reality being his human rights are being abused, so let him free to infect and kill thousands.

[Peter Pedant]

// It all sounds a bit wishy washy. I wonder if the Human Rights lawyers are thumbing through their Stones Justice manuals//

yes no - I would think
Freedom to pass and repass ( poss off down the pub that is) is not absolute right and but a conditional one - so the state does not have a duty to guarantee freedom unconditionally ( hey anyone spot Hohfeld there?)

but there may be times when they can be limited
and obvious danger of epidemic I would think is high on the list

this is not a shameem begum case but the proposed ansconders were behaving as stupidly

[Old_Geezer]

Interesting point. Terrorist gets themselves infected, flies to target country, goes around meeting as many as possible...

[Peter Pedant]

// The unfortunate reality being his human rights are being abused, so let him free to infect and kill thousands.\\

jesus - there appears to be a feeling today that you cant lock people up
of course you can - judges order ( court sentence) springs to mind
or remand in custody
or be an illegal immigrant just off the dinghy
and .....
danger of serious infection