Uk Covid Response - As Seen By Greece.

[diddlydo]

Please take a look and think that Boris and Co are still great:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/06/ve-day-heroes-patriotic-multicultural-britain
I hope the link takes you to the article re Greece as the headline is somewhat misleading!

[iluvmargie]

Maybe if you said good things about Britain every now and again? Just a thought.

[royfromaus]

I have posted nothing here that is anti-British.





You don't half love this type of thread though.

[naomi24]

//you are wrong to continue the claim that you are, effectively, forced into reaching those perceptions. You are not. //

If you're talking to me Jim, you've allowed your imagination to run away with you again. Any perception I gain comes solely from what you've written - no force employed whatsoever.

[Zacs-Master]

‘ Please take a look and think that Boris and Co are still great‘

Yep, did that. Thanks.

[jno]

okay, iluvmargie, I'll try to spell out the figures for you. Deaths per million.

Croatia 22
Greece 14
Montenegro 14
Bulgaria 13
Cyprus 12
Albania 11
So Greece is right in line with the figres for the rest of the region. So are they all lying?

[jim360]

You're reading what I write subjectively, then. Any suggestion to the contrary is either deliberate pretence or self-deceit. I don't know how else I can express it.

[KARL]

Are some on here suggesting that the UK reports as Covid 19 deaths some deaths that do not involve the virus and/or the disease, i.e. not infected or thought to be infected ? If that is being asserted then I would like a link to an official statement to that effect - I am unaware of such an operation, to my understanding UK's total Covid deaths being those dying in hospital plus (latterly) those dying outside hospital but of the disease.

[diddlydo]

Naomi - I've only just caught up with this thread and your comment earlier which was apparently aimed at me. How many times do I have to say that I love this country but that it is being ruined by the right-wing Boris-lovers. The government's response to the Covid crisis just proves my point i.e. that they're a shambles led by a bumbling buffoon.

[Togo]

Karl.......had you been diagnosed with a terminal aggressive cancer and given 6 months to live in December, then admitted to a hospital, care home, or hospice to give you comfort in your final moments and there contracted covid19 and passed away ........you would be deemed to have died of the virus. Only in twisted Britain would this be a trick that could be pulled off.

[jim360]

Naomi's question, I think, is whether the UK is reporting deaths *of* Covid, or merely of those *with* Covid. The answer is that we don't entirely know, but it should be clear that if people were merely dying *with* Covid then there would be no noticeable change in weekly overall deaths. Which there is. In the ONS's latest release of deaths recorded in England and Wales, there were roughly 60%, 80%, 120% and 120% increases on average background mortality in weeks 14, 15, 16 and 17 of this year (up to 24th April).

So at least some people recorded in the official statistics are dying *of* Covid-19, although the same data source also notes that of the c.37,000 excess deaths in that period, "only" 27,000 mention Covid-19 on the Death Certificate. So there is a lot to be understood still about what is causing the excess mortality. Owing to this discrepancy there is at least as much reason to believe that some CoronaVirus-related deaths are being missed than there is cases being counted amongst the official statistics that shouldn't be.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

[KARL]

Togo, I know of no country where someone is brought to death by Covid 19 is deemed to have died of something else, whether it was helped by some underlying condition or not - do you, if so please name it with advice on how to confirm that this is so ?

[TheWholeTruth]

"The government's response to the Covid crisis just proves my point i.e. that they're a shambles led by a bumbling buffoon."

calling you clueless is unfair to clueless...

youve been asked more than once to explain exactly how you would have handled it...you obviously are far more qualified than the Prime Minister who you are obsessed with

[naomi24]

//it should be clear that if people were merely dying *with* Covid then there would be no noticeable change in weekly overall deaths.//

Well, not really. This is something that hasn't existed in the past so an additional hazard for the sick to contend with. Sick people, especially the elderly, are likely to die when they succumb to infection, whatever that infection might be. This we have always known. The question is how many deaths are attributable solely to Coronavirus? In order to ascertain the likely effect of the virus on the rest of society it's imperative that we make finding the answer to that question a priority.

[10ClarionSt]

It's not surprising that all the Tory loving, blue rinse brigade on this site, think that anyone whose opinion is the opposite to theirs, must be left wing anti-British. How dare anyone visit this website and have an opinion that upsets the AB natives. Tut tut.

[theshedman]

Diddly for someone who claims to love this country it doesn't show in any of your posts. You never have a good word to say about it. There are more things to this country than Boris or the tories but you never seem to see past them and only post about gloomy things. How about an answer to my post yesterday at 15.42. I would like to know who you think would have handled this any better.

[diddlydo]

Shedman - in answer to your question - Mickey Mouse.

[theshedman]

Obviously you didn't look at my earlier post at 15.42 then diddly. Nothing new there when you don't want to answer something. You keep putting threads on here but not often want to answer questions when asked.

[fiction-factory]

This may help those who want a bit more clarity on counting methods.

eg -The Netherlands only includes patients who tested positive for the disease and who died in the hospital.
- Belgium , however, takes the broadest possible approach, as it measures coronavirus deaths to include probable cases where there were COVID-19-like symptoms present.
-France records all those linked to Covid
- Germany, Italy, Spain record all settings but only those with a positive test
-UK -As of April 29, the figures also include deaths in all settings where there's a positive COVID-19 test, for example, in care homes.

It's not easy to compare them. There may still be under-recording too if the excess death figures are anything to go by. The % of excess deaths accounted for by Covid range from 48% in Italy and Holland , 67% in Spain, 71% in England to around 90% in France, Belgium and Sweden.

It's clear from some posts on here that there are differences in understanding as to how we count Covid deaths for the Daily Briefings in this country, and there may be even less understanding of how other countries count theirs

[fiction-factory]

This was the source
https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-the-challenge-of-counting-covid-19-deaths/
I realise some will dismiss the source as it's an EU journal.

There were similar reports in some papers here but they are behind paywalls

[diddlydo]

Or, put another way, the so-called data fed to us each afternoon is pretty meaningless, especially as they "think" the R rate is somewhere between 0.5 and 0.9 - that's a huge difference.