‘Discrimination’ May Be Factor In Disproportionate B A M E Deaths Among Nhs Staff

[naomi24]

//Black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) medics and healthcare workers say "systemic discrimination" on the frontline of the coronavirus outbreak may be a factor in the disproportionate number of their colleagues who have died after contracting the virus.//

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-13/discrimination-frontline-coronavirus-covid19-black-minority-ethnic-bame-deaths-nhs-racism/

Why then are deaths among ethnic minorities disproportionately higher outside the NHS too? I think another reason needs to be sought.

[Mamyalynne]

Deputy Sister Anu Agboola although admittedly very overweight never used the word 'Whitey' at all, a nasty term.

It's clear there is a lot of investigation to be done on the figures and the whys and wherefores - all large organisations have some discrimination within and that of course needs addressing, virus or not.

[Mozz71]

//An Eastern European lady stated she 'thought she had already had covid and so I am cured. I don't need a mask anymore.' A black gentleman heroically stated hesitatingly, 'I er actually don't have er a fear of death'. Thanks peeps. What about the rest of us you could infect.//

Unfortunately, there are loads of people with this mindset out there, of all colours, creeds and ages. Look at some of 10CS' posts recently, and it's clear to see that there are some who will flaunt the guidelines and do as they please.

Let's be honest though, if essential PPE had been supplied, the fatality rates amount essential staff would have been greatly reduced, and we probably wouldn't be talking about this subject now.

[naomi24]

//Let's be honest though, if essential PPE had been supplied, the fatality rates amount essential staff would have been greatly reduced, and we probably wouldn't be talking about this subject now.//

PPE or lack of it isn’t the issue. People from ethnic minorities are dying in greater numbers inside and outside the NHS - around the world in fact. If we allow claims of racism to over-shadow that we’re in danger of failing to discover the real reason - and that does no one any good.

[Peter Pedant]

// PPE or lack of it isn’t the issue.//
exactly right - the question was never answered - is this set of PPE any good? the asnwer is no - it is pretty crap actually BUT they have used them for 300 000 cases or thereabouts so you can tell if it works by looking at the workforce and seeing if they are infected at any greater rate - - - and some are and some arent - is the answer isnt it?

a remarkable outbreak of logic and 'spot the fallacy' has broken out in the Ab readership - if you have a lot of BAME who are care workers and they get a lot of covid
is it because they are BAME or because any low paid care worker will get it ?

- confounding factors - there are ways around this - ask a statistician. asking the people affected is probably not the way to find out.

thing is - if the care in care homes was substandard, then wouldnt they have got it first in a pandemic and not later?

[Spicerack]

You're rather missing the point, pp.

[naomi24]

//if you have a lot of BAME who are care workers and they get a lot of covid
is it because they are BAME or because any low paid care worker will get it ?//

High mortality rates among ethnic minorities aren’t confined to care workers - so it isn’t because they are care workers.

[Prudie]

"thing is - if the care in care homes was substandard, then wouldnt they have got it first in a pandemic and not later?"
One could question that those in care homes did indeed get it first but it wasn't recognised as anything other than usual flu and respiratory infections and they carried on as normal. I see that as a far more likely answer.

[Spicerack]

Loads of different reasons. (genius, eh)
Family constructs for Asians, general ill health.
In the US, the black community called it 'the white man's disease' and thought themselves immune. Seems likely the same 'ideas' were prevalent here.
A black spokesman for something or other said on Talk Radio that Bojo was carrying out genocide. I think we can dismiss that one.
I'm sure all will be revealed at a later date (after a few inquiries.

[Spicerack]

Didn't they chuck all the hospital bed-blockers into care homes without testing them first? Soz for going off topic.

[roopower]

I read an article written by a dark skinned doctor who was arguing the case for Vitamin D deficiency being a big factor. He takes a large dose of vitamin D and said people with darker skin should take higher.

[youngmafbog]

It really is a shame when people feel the need to bring politics and racism into these things.

It is important we get to the real reason, just maybe if we can identify something than a 'medicine' can be produced to help. Banging on about discrimination is not helpful, although I would say it should still be considered as one part of a wider medical investigation.

[naomi24]

//It is important we get to the real reason, just maybe if we can identify something than a 'medicine' can be produced to help.//

Exactly.

[Old_Geezer]

Such claims need checking, but I really can't see any likelihood of NHS making a decision on whether to protect a member of staff or not based on whether they were part of some minority group. My suspicion is that this a case of taking the same old chance to cast aspirations.

Anyway maybe males are being discriminated against.

[mushroom25]

//I think we can dismiss that one. //

are you convinced that the public inquiry will do that too?

[Spicerack]

Too late to keep politics out of it. It's all politics now.

[Spicerack]

I hate it when people cast aspirations.

[Peter Pedant]

gogled how to control for confounding factors

Strategies to reduce confounding are:
1.randomization (aim is random distribution of confounders between study groups)
2.restriction (restrict entry to study of individuals with confounding factors - risks bias in itself)
3.matching (of individuals or groups, aim for equal distribution of confounders)

I may be missing the point - I usually do, done it for 70y

I thought it was - "we get it because we do all the heavy lifing and we want the whites to do a bit or their share as well"

too posh to nurse - alot of the care is given by care workers no

[Peter Pedant]

// One could postulate that those in care homes did indeed get it first but it wasn't recognised as anything other than usual flu //

this is the oxford - epidemic, what epidemic view - it was just a case of relabelling - in this case labelling covid as something else - something that JIm said"I dont think that ever happened you know"

and would be detected by an increased death rate
and on the ground - they are dying like flies"

quite a lot of the lessons around HIV look as tho they have to be relearnt = no 1 being - - - dont politicise a disease it newver does the patients any good

[douglas9401]

Just so we're all on the same page, the plague sent by God thing's a non-starter then?

[Peter Pedant]

// Just so we're all on the same page, the plague sent by God thing's a non-starter then?//

Brreeeeaaax !

[to be exact: Brekekekex koax koax Brekekekex koax koax Children of the marsh and lake / harmonious song now sweetly make. ...]
yes boys and girls that was the chorus from Aristophanes: the Frogs.

(play by an auncient play wright and a plague of egypt ( bibical) in case er some people cant follow leaps of fancy - Doug a classicist may well have spotted it)

Jesus have yo read? The Chair is smacking heads together on the vaping thread.