‘Discrimination’ May Be Factor In Disproportionate B A M E Deaths Among Nhs Staff

[naomi24]

//Black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) medics and healthcare workers say "systemic discrimination" on the frontline of the coronavirus outbreak may be a factor in the disproportionate number of their colleagues who have died after contracting the virus.//

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-05-13/discrimination-frontline-coronavirus-covid19-black-minority-ethnic-bame-deaths-nhs-racism/

Why then are deaths among ethnic minorities disproportionately higher outside the NHS too? I think another reason needs to be sought.

[sp1814]

Theland

Thailand was Autocorrect jumping in there...

[naomi24]

Sp, //I supposed if you look for something.//

It's far from unknown.

//There are certain people here who absolutely believed accusations of antisemitism in the Labour Party, but who don't believe this report.//

If ethnic minorities outside the NHS and around the world weren’t similarly disproportionately represented in statistics the report might make sense. As it is, it doesn’t.

[sp1814]

naomi24

Is it possible that read this story and posted a thread on it, not because you were looking for answers but because you wanted to state a position?

That racism is irrelevant here.

What experience do you have of racism in the NHS that you can call on?

[naomi24]

Sp, I’ve stated my position. I would hate - absolutely hate - for this situation where people from ethnic minorities are dying in droves to be attributed to the wrong cause. We can’t prevent it if we don’t know what’s causing it - and it stands to reason that if it’s happening both inside and outside the NHS, racism isn’t the reason. It saddens me that anyone would rather jump on that bandwagon than seek real answers.

[sp1814]

naomi24

You wrote:

//If ethnic minorities outside the NHS and around the world weren’t similarly disproportionately represented in statistics the report might make sense. As it is, it doesn’t.//

Explain 'similarly disproportionately represented'

Show me your sources please.

Mine:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/22/racial-inequality-in-britain-found-a-risk-factor-for-covid-19

https://www.hsj.co.uk/exclusive-deaths-of-nhs-staff-from-covid-19-analysed/7027471.article

In the general population you can see that there as more BAME deaths due to Covid-19 (15% general population to about 19.5% of deaths), but when you look at clinical staff, the figures BAME individuals account for 63%, 64% and 95% of deaths in the same staff groups.

[sp1814]

What experience do you have that outweighs those heroes on the front line?

[sp1814]

My point is this - the disease is killing black and ethnic minority people at a greater rate than in the white community.

However, it's killing off BAME NHS staff at a *much* higher rate.

It may be biological (genetic susceptibility), medical (due to association with diseases such as hypertension and diabetes which are risk factors for poor outcome from covid-19), or sociological (and that would encompass factors such as discrimination).

It's not right to pull figures out of the air and say, "It can't be due to racism because black people are dying all over."

That's reductive.

[naomi24]

SP, It should come as no surprise that people exposed to the virus on a daily basis are more likely to be affected by it.

Look in any newspaper if you want sources. Every one of them will tell you that ethnic minorities the world over are disproportionately represented. Don’t you want to know why?

[royfromaus]

Could be simply that BAME people are more susceptible to the virus but there is no hiding place for BAME NHS staff, unlike BAME people in the general public who can choose to barricade themselves in. Hence the higher proportion within the NHS

[ToraToraTora]

sp: "There are certain people here who absolutely believed accusations of antisemitism in the Labour Party, but who don't believe this report. " - well that's because there is overwhelming evidence. Where as this is just supposition of racism, as usual, based on no actual evidence.

[naomi24]

Precisely roy. See the first paragraph of my previous post.

[sp1814]

naomi24

Have you decided that racism has no part in this?

You wrote:

//Look in any newspaper if you want sources. Every one of them will tell you that ethnic minorities the world over are disproportionately represented. Don’t you want to know why?//

Absolutely - but I wouldn't use the story to state my position with regard to racism. But why do you think you're in a position to determine whether discrimination exists in the NHS?

When you posted this, weren't you looking to state you position on racism in this context?

Looking at your OP, it does not look like you were curious for answers. It looks like you had your answer and wanted to share it.

I might be wrong.








(I'm not though).

[sp1814]

LOL @ TTT

[naomi24]

Sp, //When you posted this, weren't you looking to state you position on racism in this context?//

You needn’t try to dissect my posts to put your own interpretation on them, What I say I mean. Always. When ethnic minorities are disproportionately represented in the wider world it makes no sense to blame the disproportionate number of deaths among ethnic minorities within the NHS on racism. None. I want answers - real answers.

So, yes - you are wrong.

[Theland]

The report indeed may raise actual examples of racism, but I suspect it is largely anecdotal.

[ToraToraTora]

just one of many links, this one leaked from the party Itself....
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium-zio-scum-leaked-labour-document-reveals-dozens-of-anti-semitic-incidents-1.8227077

[sp1814]

Theland

So your position is that these heroes are lying?

[sp1814]

Or do you think that they're mistaken?

Or that they're falling back on racism because they have no other excuse for their own failings?

Or something else?

On Thursday night do clap for them?

[sp1814]

TTT - and the difference between that report and this one is what?

What's the difference between that and say the McPherson report into systematic racism in the Met Police?

Is it possible that whether you believe the report is down to confirmation bias?

[royfromaus]

Not much point looking for any other reason ... racism it is.