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Lockdown 2?
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"Mr Johnson is expected to give Britain one final chance to prove it can follow the rules and suppress a second wave" - clearly the public can't follow the rules so is LD 2 now inevitable?
"Mr Johnson is expected to give Britain one final chance to prove it can follow the rules and suppress a second wave" - clearly the public can't follow the rules so is LD 2 now inevitable?
Answers
//Boris announced easing of lockdown on 24th June when daily new cases of Covid-19 was 591. New daily cases now are 4,422.// And the conclusion is? If it's that the lockdown should have continued, consider this: it lasted for about three and a half months. Since then it has emerged that: - It has cost the country twenty years' economic growth. - Tens of...
12:08 Mon 21st Sep 2020
@mushroom 14:25 - thing is “key workers” can’t stay off? Who will run our hospitals? Empty the refuse? Social workers for families in danger? Police? Etc. And so long as there’s “anyone” around even key workers there’s potential for virus to spread.
I don’t know what’s for the best... I don’t think (economically) we can do lockdown yet at the same time the population in general is not taking enough personal responsibility to take precautions
I don’t know what’s for the best... I don’t think (economically) we can do lockdown yet at the same time the population in general is not taking enough personal responsibility to take precautions
I think they should rule out another March-style lockdown. I don’t think that’s at all likely by the way but they seem to be hinting at it as some sort of threat to punish the non compliers, which I think is divisive and counterproductive.
Stop pretending that the virus can be “defeated”.
Get that out of the way and they can as far as I’m concerned keep using local lockdowns. That last bit isn’t what I’d do but it’s pointless expecting a government not to be seen to be responding.
Just a bit more realism.
Say we’re going to manage until a vaccine comes along and do our best to have the NHS ready. But not holding the livelihoods and general health of the entire country to ransom.
After all who knows if there will even be a vaccine by next spring
Stop pretending that the virus can be “defeated”.
Get that out of the way and they can as far as I’m concerned keep using local lockdowns. That last bit isn’t what I’d do but it’s pointless expecting a government not to be seen to be responding.
Just a bit more realism.
Say we’re going to manage until a vaccine comes along and do our best to have the NHS ready. But not holding the livelihoods and general health of the entire country to ransom.
After all who knows if there will even be a vaccine by next spring
//with respect :
What is YOUR solution to the PRESENT situation?//
What I would do is firstly to provide the population with proper information about the risks they face. We've been through the numbers countless times but the fact that does not seem to be emphasised is that the risk of encountering an infected person at all is very low; the risk of them passing it to somebody else is very much lower; the risk of that person suffering serious symptoms are lower still and the risk of that person dying are miniscule. I have just seen that the daily death rate in Spain (where apparently their cases have rocketed) is 0.2 people per 100,000. That's 1 in half a million. Yet there are people around who were scared witless by the government in March and remain so. I have a 35 year old relative who has not been outside her front door since then. She has no underlying health problems - she's as fit as a fiddle. But she will not go out. She has a good job which fortunately she can and does do at home but I worry for her health by her living such a life.
So firstly, a proper perspective view of the risk should be provided. Then, those most at risk (the elderly, those with underlying health problems) should be able, if they wish, to properly isolate. They should be able to have their essentials delivered so that they do not have to venture out if they don't wish to. Advice should then be given to everybody on how best to minimise the risk of contracting the virus (social distancing, hygiene, etc.). And that's about it, for the plain fact is that this virus will spread. It will spread whatever measures are in place (short of a total, total lockdown which is clearly unsustainable).
A total change of tack is needed. Everything we hear is of "controlling" the outbreak. It cannot be controlled without massive damage to the economy, health and social fabric of the country. The virus must be endured - it cannot be controlled.
What is YOUR solution to the PRESENT situation?//
What I would do is firstly to provide the population with proper information about the risks they face. We've been through the numbers countless times but the fact that does not seem to be emphasised is that the risk of encountering an infected person at all is very low; the risk of them passing it to somebody else is very much lower; the risk of that person suffering serious symptoms are lower still and the risk of that person dying are miniscule. I have just seen that the daily death rate in Spain (where apparently their cases have rocketed) is 0.2 people per 100,000. That's 1 in half a million. Yet there are people around who were scared witless by the government in March and remain so. I have a 35 year old relative who has not been outside her front door since then. She has no underlying health problems - she's as fit as a fiddle. But she will not go out. She has a good job which fortunately she can and does do at home but I worry for her health by her living such a life.
So firstly, a proper perspective view of the risk should be provided. Then, those most at risk (the elderly, those with underlying health problems) should be able, if they wish, to properly isolate. They should be able to have their essentials delivered so that they do not have to venture out if they don't wish to. Advice should then be given to everybody on how best to minimise the risk of contracting the virus (social distancing, hygiene, etc.). And that's about it, for the plain fact is that this virus will spread. It will spread whatever measures are in place (short of a total, total lockdown which is clearly unsustainable).
A total change of tack is needed. Everything we hear is of "controlling" the outbreak. It cannot be controlled without massive damage to the economy, health and social fabric of the country. The virus must be endured - it cannot be controlled.
By contrast NJ the government seems to be at pains to panic people even more and to start blaming “a minority” effectively for behaving normally. And the health secretary yesterday told people to spy on their neighbours.
For the government’s own good as much as anything, that cannot be an advisable way to proceed
For the government’s own good as much as anything, that cannot be an advisable way to proceed
//Everything we hear is of "controlling" the outbreak/
And how the hell we do 'control' a virus?
Its nuts. Its like saying how do we control earthquakes. We dont. Just learn to live with them and accept that some will die. Unfortunate but reality.
Wearing a face nappy isnt going to stop it any more than carrying a shovel isnt going to stop you getting covered in debris from an earthquake...(or anyone else)
And how the hell we do 'control' a virus?
Its nuts. Its like saying how do we control earthquakes. We dont. Just learn to live with them and accept that some will die. Unfortunate but reality.
Wearing a face nappy isnt going to stop it any more than carrying a shovel isnt going to stop you getting covered in debris from an earthquake...(or anyone else)
The Government Scientists were wheeled out today to say we have all been very naughty boys and girls, and as a result there will be 1,500,000 new cases next month.
Boris is a coward and a ditherer. Not a good combination.
He won’t introduce Lockdown2 tomorrow. He will press on with local lockdowns (London -its now your turn), and tell everyone else their legs will be slapped by nanny if they won’t jolly well do as they are told.
Boris is a coward and a ditherer. Not a good combination.
He won’t introduce Lockdown2 tomorrow. He will press on with local lockdowns (London -its now your turn), and tell everyone else their legs will be slapped by nanny if they won’t jolly well do as they are told.
NJ..no complaints there and you have please your case.
What you are describing is a continuation of what I believe tobe herd immunity,not necessarily the scientific definition, but sqad's definition of letting the irrelevant take it course and along with it the increasing mortality mainly of the elderly.
I think think that is a solution that many would agree with.......you can say that,but a Politician cannot, that is if bis Party is to remain in Government. It would also be disingenuous to the memories of over 40,000 that has lost their lives at the hand of this very contagious iris over a period of 6 months.
You have stated your case and I respect that. Herd Immunity may well be the answer before a vaccine becomes available.
Restrictions and lock downs are not the answer because an increasing minority will not comply,a characteristic feature of the electorate in the UK.
I think that the government will increase restrictions but stop short of a complete lockdown.
What would I do as an octogenarian?....complete lockdown.
What should be implemented?.........herd immunity.
What you are describing is a continuation of what I believe tobe herd immunity,not necessarily the scientific definition, but sqad's definition of letting the irrelevant take it course and along with it the increasing mortality mainly of the elderly.
I think think that is a solution that many would agree with.......you can say that,but a Politician cannot, that is if bis Party is to remain in Government. It would also be disingenuous to the memories of over 40,000 that has lost their lives at the hand of this very contagious iris over a period of 6 months.
You have stated your case and I respect that. Herd Immunity may well be the answer before a vaccine becomes available.
Restrictions and lock downs are not the answer because an increasing minority will not comply,a characteristic feature of the electorate in the UK.
I think that the government will increase restrictions but stop short of a complete lockdown.
What would I do as an octogenarian?....complete lockdown.
What should be implemented?.........herd immunity.
//Doing nothing - herd immunity, would result in another 40,000 dead by Spring.//
Three points arising from that:
1. How do you know?
2. It won't be a case of simply "doing nothing." If no formal restrictions were in place many people (me included) would continue to take sensible precautions. I do not visit crowded places at any time because I cannot stand crowds. "Social distancing" is my norm anyway. I would also continue with rigorous hand hygiene (once again, as I usually do anyway, Covid or no Covid). But I will not wear a mask (for reasons I have explained many times before) and I would not limit my interactions with friends and family. I would assess the risk myself and act accordingly.
3. 350,000 people (or thereabouts) will die between now and next Spring anyway (from all causes). A good number of them may die as a result of medical neglect because of Covid policies. They will be just as dead and their families will gain no succour if they are told they died in order to reduce the (highly speculative) total of Covid deaths you mention.
Three points arising from that:
1. How do you know?
2. It won't be a case of simply "doing nothing." If no formal restrictions were in place many people (me included) would continue to take sensible precautions. I do not visit crowded places at any time because I cannot stand crowds. "Social distancing" is my norm anyway. I would also continue with rigorous hand hygiene (once again, as I usually do anyway, Covid or no Covid). But I will not wear a mask (for reasons I have explained many times before) and I would not limit my interactions with friends and family. I would assess the risk myself and act accordingly.
3. 350,000 people (or thereabouts) will die between now and next Spring anyway (from all causes). A good number of them may die as a result of medical neglect because of Covid policies. They will be just as dead and their families will gain no succour if they are told they died in order to reduce the (highly speculative) total of Covid deaths you mention.
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