Rules, Guidance, Or Utter Nonsense?

[New Judge]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-54285720

“Universities have now pledged to make it "absolutely clear" to students that there must be no parties.”

There must be no parties. "Must", not "should not"

“Students have also been warned that any breaches of the new rules "will not be tolerated".”

Definite mention of “rules.”


"The stricter guidelines were announced after opposition leaders accused First Minister Nicola Sturgeon of a "basic failure" to anticipate the problem and provide more testing on university campuses."

So we’re back to “guidelines"

"Universities Scotland said the new guidance that had been agreed with the Scottish government…"

And “guidance.”

“The new rules state that all universities will "make absolutely clear to students that there must be no parties, and no socialising outside their households".//

But now we’re back to “rules.”

“They go on to say: "This weekend, the first of the new tighter Scottish government guidance, we will require students to avoid all socialising outside of their households and outside of their accommodation. 'We will ask them not to go to bars or other hospitality venues.' “

But then we’re “asking them” and back to “guidance.”

“Nicola Sturgeon later clarified that the rules about avoiding hospitality applied only to this weekend.”

But then again, “rules.”

What are these people up to? "Rules" or "Guidance". If the guidance is not covered by the law, how are they going to "require" students (who are adults, remember) to "avoid all socialising outside of their households"?

These governments need to decide whether they are asking or telling. Either way it's not going to make much difference. Students will socialise and that's that.

[douglas9401]

We have an expression up here: 'peerie heidit'

The polite version is 'a state of muddle or confusion'.

There are others.

[Buenchico]

>>> If the guidance is not covered by the law, how are they going to "require" students (who are adults, remember) to "avoid all socialising outside of their households"?

Possibly answered by this quote from a student?
"She added the threat from the university accommodation bosses that anyone breaking rules may be evicted was worrying"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54244333

[douglas9401]

They do get themselves in a jam, these politicians, by not wanting to appear heavy-handed then expecting yoof to take them seriously.

Transgressors will claim trauma if punished and be given one more chance as per.

They are the creme de la creme after all.

[pixie374]

I would take all those to be fairly similar, maybe with different degrees of importance. But unless they are "laws", they all amount to requests.

[allenlondon]

Even if they ARE laws, they can still amount to §ollox$.

[jno]

why do you say yoof, douglas? It's exactly the same for subjects of all ages.

[gulliver1]

Very unusual for N/J to post a question.

[dave50]

If the students ignore the guidance even though they know the situation, and have to be forced by law to comply, then obviously the government have lost students confidence in the effectiveness of the restrictions.

[pixie374]

How much "at risk" are teenagers now? I would be tempted to say, just let them be students...

[bobbinwales]

Shouldnt we just pull together and get through this. You know it make's sense. Why look for problems. It would be good if theres more clarity in life yes, but laws take time to put in place. But its simple- just just dont have big parties because its in yours and everyones interest. Then it doesnt matter if its rules or law or guidance . Anyways if the university says those are there rules anyway then theres no need to involve police or politicians.

[Cloverjo]

Let them get on with it. Just be careful when they’re visiting their grannies and grandpas in the holidays.
Warnings/advice/guidelines/whatever they’re calling it from this government get more ludicrous by the day.

[douglas9401]

I thought we were commenting on Scottish universities, their students ad behaviours thereof.

That's why.

There may be the odd mature student but most are yoof, innit.

[archibaldy]

// dont have big parties because its in yours and everyones interest //

The problem with humans is that they quite often do things that aren't in their own best interest and do even more things that aren't in everyone else's best interest - additionally the definition of what's perceived as what's in one's best interest can differ based on many factors. Hence the need for incentives and punishments, just talking to people doesn't really cut it a lot of the time.

[andy-hughes]

Asking, or even ordering students not to have parties is akin to asking bears not to use large tree-filled areas as their toilet of choice.

Probably about as successful as well.

[douglas9401]

Although the bears tend to smell better overall.

[jno]

indeed, douglas, I was just pointing out that it's standard procedure for today's politicians: they want to be firm but they also want to be loved. I doubt adults have any more confidence in them than students do.

[THECORBYLOON]

The students are being "asked" not to socialize outwith their households because they cannot be forced to do so.

If they fail to do so, Scots universities have agreed they "will take a strict ‘Yellow Card/Red Card’ approach to breaches of student discipline that put students and others at risk. While we first want to advise students about breaches of discipline, we will not hesitate to escalate this to disciplinary action including potential discontinuation of study."

There will be warnings and sanctions, so there are penalties for not adhering to the new rules.

[ynnafymmi]

I wonder if the rules will only apply to "no"voters.....if you are a"yes"voter,carry on regardless.

[Spicerack]

Have you considered getting a Covid Inspector job, Corby?
Not sure why but I think you'd be rather good at it

[dave50]

It won't be long before resentment builds up amongst the young against the old. If you think about it, prodictive jobs are being sacrificed for the old and infirm ie the economically inactive.