Only By Under The Table Means Would This...
Crosswords4 mins ago
Covid - The Missing Uk Cases.....
35 Answers
seems 16,000 cases were omitted from figures last week because of an "IT Error"
https:/
on various internet platforms, it's being suggested the "error" was because whoever loaded the data into the Excel spreadsheet did so on a case-by-column basis, rather than a case-by-row basis, meaning the spreadsheet maxed out 64 times earlier than expected.
aside from wondering if excel is a suitable database medium for so much data (it's cheap therefore it's good, eh?), these are schoolboy errors that should have been reviewed out before the system went live.
shouldn't they?
https:/
on various internet platforms, it's being suggested the "error" was because whoever loaded the data into the Excel spreadsheet did so on a case-by-column basis, rather than a case-by-row basis, meaning the spreadsheet maxed out 64 times earlier than expected.
aside from wondering if excel is a suitable database medium for so much data (it's cheap therefore it's good, eh?), these are schoolboy errors that should have been reviewed out before the system went live.
shouldn't they?
Answers
Best Answer
No best answer has yet been selected by mushroom25. Once a best answer has been selected, it will be shown here.
For more on marking an answer as the "Best Answer", please visit our FAQ.
Everything the present UK Government does is outsourced to their cronies in the consulting business, usually without a tender.
So instead of public money buying the best service or the least expensive, they instead get the one that best serves the Conservative Party.
As with the Track and Trace debacle, the private companies also often turn out to be utterly useless at simple tasks, having hired the cheapest workers and offering no training.
So instead of public money buying the best service or the least expensive, they instead get the one that best serves the Conservative Party.
As with the Track and Trace debacle, the private companies also often turn out to be utterly useless at simple tasks, having hired the cheapest workers and offering no training.
error by the data input clerk
in the killer=computer 101 course - arent 30% of really bad softward failures caused by fingers like biscuit barrels of the input clerks?
which if you trained them a bit more and paid a bit more wdnt occur
we had a jump in mortality and crit incs at the local childrens hospital on 1 Au 1994 - ha when the junior doctors changed over
and so did the input clerks and one decided - was better than 0 and that caused the jump
Losing data if you are on the losing side ( er need the data to be lost) can be a godsend
( as godsendy as Trump getting covid)
in the killer=computer 101 course - arent 30% of really bad softward failures caused by fingers like biscuit barrels of the input clerks?
which if you trained them a bit more and paid a bit more wdnt occur
we had a jump in mortality and crit incs at the local childrens hospital on 1 Au 1994 - ha when the junior doctors changed over
and so did the input clerks and one decided - was better than 0 and that caused the jump
Losing data if you are on the losing side ( er need the data to be lost) can be a godsend
( as godsendy as Trump getting covid)
// where people are involved, errors will happen.//
er yeah
try if you can bear it - tune into the arena inquiry
Fire Brigade this week - "we practised for the wrong kind of terrorist attack. Machine guns. so when we heard it was a bomb we thought it must be a machine gun and ran away. To phillips park" ( near me and certainly NOT near the arena)
well that certainly explains why they didnt appear for two hours
well there was a senior officer in the FB there at the scene. why didnt he phone? he didnt.
mind boggling human errors. - but only one excess death ( I thought there were none) because others came together and fixed it
(unlike Borough market where two days later they peered into a sunken dining area and found 5 bled out bodies - oops!)
er yeah
try if you can bear it - tune into the arena inquiry
Fire Brigade this week - "we practised for the wrong kind of terrorist attack. Machine guns. so when we heard it was a bomb we thought it must be a machine gun and ran away. To phillips park" ( near me and certainly NOT near the arena)
well that certainly explains why they didnt appear for two hours
well there was a senior officer in the FB there at the scene. why didnt he phone? he didnt.
mind boggling human errors. - but only one excess death ( I thought there were none) because others came together and fixed it
(unlike Borough market where two days later they peered into a sunken dining area and found 5 bled out bodies - oops!)
jno,
Indeed.
Public Health England ceased to in charge of collating the data and Harding’s new the quango, the National Institute for Health Protection (NIHP) took over the task.
Harding was appointed its head, she did not apply, and no one better qualified was considered for the post.
She is a Conservative peer, with a Conservative MP husband with no experience in healthcare - what could possibly go wrong?
Indeed.
Public Health England ceased to in charge of collating the data and Harding’s new the quango, the National Institute for Health Protection (NIHP) took over the task.
Harding was appointed its head, she did not apply, and no one better qualified was considered for the post.
She is a Conservative peer, with a Conservative MP husband with no experience in healthcare - what could possibly go wrong?
// a world beating track and trace system down to simple GIGO,//
yes- no I understand the one compartment moe-dell is open to criticism esp if there is no storage register
but this was "no info in - no tracky-tracey"
as the data clerk thought a row was a column ( durr)
and so far as that is the case - a black-box model of old will work
yes- no I understand the one compartment moe-dell is open to criticism esp if there is no storage register
but this was "no info in - no tracky-tracey"
as the data clerk thought a row was a column ( durr)
and so far as that is the case - a black-box model of old will work
New Judge,
It was correct to replace PHE with a new body because they were trying to perform a function for which they were never meant to handle. It wasn’t working, and a replacement was needed.
I hope you are wrong when you say that nothing has changed except the name. That would be really cynical.
It was correct to replace PHE with a new body because they were trying to perform a function for which they were never meant to handle. It wasn’t working, and a replacement was needed.
I hope you are wrong when you say that nothing has changed except the name. That would be really cynical.
//...no we arent expecting lady Dido to re write software code//
It seems no "software code" was necessary:
=========
The BBC has confirmed the missing Covid-19 test data was caused by the ill-thought-out use of Microsoft's Excel software. Furthermore, Public Health England (PHE) was to blame, rather than a third-party contractor.
The issue was caused by the way the agency brought together logs produced by the commercial firms paid to carry out swab tests for the virus.
They filed their results in the form of text-based lists, without issue.
PHE had set up an automatic process to pull this data together into Excel templates so that it could then be uploaded to a central system and made available to the NHS Test and Trace team as well as other government computer dashboards.
The problem is that the PHE developers picked an old file format to do this - known as XLS.
As a consequence, each template could handle only about 65,000 rows of data rather than the one million-plus rows that Excel is actually capable of.
And since each test result created several rows of data, in practice it meant that each template was limited to about 1,400 cases. When that total was reached, further cases were simply left off.
=========
So let me get this straight. PHE (and its successor since 18th August) has been handling the data on new infections. This data is used to determine wide ranging restrictions and limitations on businesses and people's lives, the severity of which are unparalleled in peace time and some even unheard of in wartime. In order to process this data the scribes have been using MS-Excel (which I have used extensively at work and which I use at home to track my finances and gas bills). Bad enough. But not only the that, the "developers" (almost certainly glorified, or maybe unglorified Macro writers and in that respect I have probably done more "developing" with Excel than they have) were not even aware, or at least did not pay heed, to the capacity limitations of the version and file formats they were using.
We are being led to economic oblivion and to non-Covid health catastrophes based on the results produced by these clowns. (No, "clowns" is not fair - clowns set out to make you laugh and they generally succeed). And we are supposed to follow the advice of a government that cannot properly oversee the simple counting of numbers.
It seems no "software code" was necessary:
=========
The BBC has confirmed the missing Covid-19 test data was caused by the ill-thought-out use of Microsoft's Excel software. Furthermore, Public Health England (PHE) was to blame, rather than a third-party contractor.
The issue was caused by the way the agency brought together logs produced by the commercial firms paid to carry out swab tests for the virus.
They filed their results in the form of text-based lists, without issue.
PHE had set up an automatic process to pull this data together into Excel templates so that it could then be uploaded to a central system and made available to the NHS Test and Trace team as well as other government computer dashboards.
The problem is that the PHE developers picked an old file format to do this - known as XLS.
As a consequence, each template could handle only about 65,000 rows of data rather than the one million-plus rows that Excel is actually capable of.
And since each test result created several rows of data, in practice it meant that each template was limited to about 1,400 cases. When that total was reached, further cases were simply left off.
=========
So let me get this straight. PHE (and its successor since 18th August) has been handling the data on new infections. This data is used to determine wide ranging restrictions and limitations on businesses and people's lives, the severity of which are unparalleled in peace time and some even unheard of in wartime. In order to process this data the scribes have been using MS-Excel (which I have used extensively at work and which I use at home to track my finances and gas bills). Bad enough. But not only the that, the "developers" (almost certainly glorified, or maybe unglorified Macro writers and in that respect I have probably done more "developing" with Excel than they have) were not even aware, or at least did not pay heed, to the capacity limitations of the version and file formats they were using.
We are being led to economic oblivion and to non-Covid health catastrophes based on the results produced by these clowns. (No, "clowns" is not fair - clowns set out to make you laugh and they generally succeed). And we are supposed to follow the advice of a government that cannot properly oversee the simple counting of numbers.
//I hope you are wrong when you say that nothing has changed except the name. That would be really cynical.//
I am a well practised cynic. When a quango changes its name and gets a new boss following a shambles you have to wonder what the outcome will be, other than a change to the headed notepaper.
I am a well practised cynic. When a quango changes its name and gets a new boss following a shambles you have to wonder what the outcome will be, other than a change to the headed notepaper.
"each template could handle only about 65,000 rows of data
...
And since each test result created several rows of data, in practice it meant that each template was limited to about 1,400 cases."
Dividing 1,400 cases into 65,000 rows gives forty-six rows per case.
There might be some truth in the BBC's claim but even allowing a few rows for the headings, I doubt each case needs forty lines of data.
...
And since each test result created several rows of data, in practice it meant that each template was limited to about 1,400 cases."
Dividing 1,400 cases into 65,000 rows gives forty-six rows per case.
There might be some truth in the BBC's claim but even allowing a few rows for the headings, I doubt each case needs forty lines of data.
//Dividing 1,400 cases into 65,000 rows gives forty-six rows per case.
There might be some truth in the BBC's claim but even allowing a few rows for the headings, I doubt each case needs forty lines of data.//
Whatever the complete answer is, Corby, there seems no doubt that Excel was not the right tool for the job. Whoever constructed the spreadsheet system that was used was negligent and those overseeing it were equally so. Excel - especially an older version - is simply not a suitable tool for such a large data capturing exercise. If a proprietary tool was to be used MS Access would have been far more suitable. I once provided training for people who used Excel and wanted to move some of their tasks over to Access. I also constructed some very hefty databases in Access and never once encountered a record limit. Although I'm sure there must be a limit I had tables with more than a million records which could be manipulated with no problems.
But this is all academic. PHE (or whoever) should have employed specialist developers to produce a bespoke tool and not relied on spreadsheet builders using a wholly unsuitable tool.
There might be some truth in the BBC's claim but even allowing a few rows for the headings, I doubt each case needs forty lines of data.//
Whatever the complete answer is, Corby, there seems no doubt that Excel was not the right tool for the job. Whoever constructed the spreadsheet system that was used was negligent and those overseeing it were equally so. Excel - especially an older version - is simply not a suitable tool for such a large data capturing exercise. If a proprietary tool was to be used MS Access would have been far more suitable. I once provided training for people who used Excel and wanted to move some of their tasks over to Access. I also constructed some very hefty databases in Access and never once encountered a record limit. Although I'm sure there must be a limit I had tables with more than a million records which could be manipulated with no problems.
But this is all academic. PHE (or whoever) should have employed specialist developers to produce a bespoke tool and not relied on spreadsheet builders using a wholly unsuitable tool.
Latest Posts
Good Morning Christmas Eve Birds!
ChatterBank7 mins ago
Protests Erupt In Syria Over Christmas...
News11 mins ago
ChatterBank13 mins ago
ChatterBank15 mins ago
Related Questions
Sorry, we can't find any related questions. Try using the search bar at the top of the page to search for some keywords, or choose a topic and submit your own question.