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30 Years Ago Today
30 years ago we were still an adventurous and outward looking nation who did stuff like build the Channel Tunnel.
Now we've degenerated into a frightened, myopic, and inwards looking nation, intent on hiding away behind trade barriers we've erected against our European neighbours (no matter the harm to our own economy we're inflicting in the process).
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Now we've degenerated into a frightened, myopic, and inwards looking nation, intent on hiding away behind trade barriers we've erected against our European neighbours (no matter the harm to our own economy we're inflicting in the process).
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It's all down to not wanting anyone foreign living in Britain. Well thats TTTs idea .Not sure what age TTT is.( Judging by some of his posts about 7.) But we would not have won WW2 without the help of Allies No way could Britain have won on its own. We could not stand alone then .and we can not now ,United we stand Divided we fall
untitled; "It is not anti-British to care about preserving the Union of Great Britain and to care about protecting this country's vital trade relationships with its neighbours." - Why do we need to be subjugated to the EUSSR to do trade?
"Those things might not be important to you, but they are to me"
They are very important to me I just don't see why we need to be ruled by a corrupt unelected foreign power to have trade agreements.
"...and it is not anti-British to say so even if a narrow majority disagree. " - it is anti British to collaborate with a foriegn power like fifth columnists.
"Those things might not be important to you, but they are to me"
They are very important to me I just don't see why we need to be ruled by a corrupt unelected foreign power to have trade agreements.
"...and it is not anti-British to say so even if a narrow majority disagree. " - it is anti British to collaborate with a foriegn power like fifth columnists.
untitled: //"indeed if it is actually self harm."
It's perfectly obvious that it is. Even the government's most optimistic projections had us suffering significant economic damage though admittedly that was pre-covid so we were in for a big economic hit anyway. // - why? How? you don;t even know what trade deals we'll do yet and guess what, there are 175 countries in the world not in the EUSSR.
It's perfectly obvious that it is. Even the government's most optimistic projections had us suffering significant economic damage though admittedly that was pre-covid so we were in for a big economic hit anyway. // - why? How? you don;t even know what trade deals we'll do yet and guess what, there are 175 countries in the world not in the EUSSR.
//Do you honestly believe that with a victory that narrow the Leave side would have won without anti-immigration voters?//
So what if it did take anti-immigration voters to swing the poll. They are as entitled to express their views through the ballot box as anybody else. Does being of an anti-immigration persuasion somehow disbar one from voting? This country was taken into the EU without a plebiscite. It's often said that those voting to leave it did not know what they were voting for. The same is equally if not more applicable when the electorate was asked to confirm its support for membership in 1975. Nobody knew 45 years ago that the trading organisation that they supported would have ambitions to become a federal state; nor did they know that the bloc would expand to encompass many USSR satellite states of many, quite frankly, don't have a pot to pee in. And they certainly did not know that "EU law" would reign supreme over their own Parliament's legislation. If you believe they were told all of this, have a look at the pamphlet the government produced ahead of that referendum:
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All politicians of every persuasion mislead the public. It's what they do and it's about the only thing of which they demonstrate any capability. It's up to the electorate to see through their deceit and cast their votes according to what they know and believe, not what they're told by politicians. That's what it did in 2016.
So what if it did take anti-immigration voters to swing the poll. They are as entitled to express their views through the ballot box as anybody else. Does being of an anti-immigration persuasion somehow disbar one from voting? This country was taken into the EU without a plebiscite. It's often said that those voting to leave it did not know what they were voting for. The same is equally if not more applicable when the electorate was asked to confirm its support for membership in 1975. Nobody knew 45 years ago that the trading organisation that they supported would have ambitions to become a federal state; nor did they know that the bloc would expand to encompass many USSR satellite states of many, quite frankly, don't have a pot to pee in. And they certainly did not know that "EU law" would reign supreme over their own Parliament's legislation. If you believe they were told all of this, have a look at the pamphlet the government produced ahead of that referendum:
http://
All politicians of every persuasion mislead the public. It's what they do and it's about the only thing of which they demonstrate any capability. It's up to the electorate to see through their deceit and cast their votes according to what they know and believe, not what they're told by politicians. That's what it did in 2016.
Tora, if immigration is irrelevant to Brexit, why did you think it worthwhile asking a question about it?
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"So what if it did take anti-immigration voters to swing the poll. They are as entitled to express their views through the ballot box as anybody else. Does being of an anti-immigration persuasion somehow disbar one from voting? "
People like youngmafbog are insisting that it didn't. Of course people who are anti-immigration should be able to vote, what a stupid question. The only reason I mentioned it is that I think it's a shame that the damage of Brexit is being inflicted on us at the behest of people who don't like foreigners.
People like youngmafbog are insisting that it didn't. Of course people who are anti-immigration should be able to vote, what a stupid question. The only reason I mentioned it is that I think it's a shame that the damage of Brexit is being inflicted on us at the behest of people who don't like foreigners.
//why? How? you don;t even know what trade deals we'll do yet and guess what, there are 175 countries in the world not in the EUSSR. //
The vast majority of the remaining 175 countries are not as rich or as close to us as the EU (that matters when you're moving goods see) and the ones that are like the US/China are in quite a strong position over us. This is not anti-British it's just reality. I would much rather we were not in this position because I care about this country's fortunes (see? not anti-British). I'd also rather the union was not driven apart but you obviously don't care about that if you're a Brexiter. People who don't care about the damage or don't believe in it want it and now swan around telling everyone else they are anti-British! The mind boggles.
"Why do we need to be subjugated to the EUSSR to do trade? "
What a melodramatic thing to say. How on earth were the EU "subjugating" us? Tell me specifically how the EU was oppressing us. The bendy bananas thing you mentioned is a myth by the way, you could at least use truthful examples but I suppose it's necessary to make them up.
The vast majority of the remaining 175 countries are not as rich or as close to us as the EU (that matters when you're moving goods see) and the ones that are like the US/China are in quite a strong position over us. This is not anti-British it's just reality. I would much rather we were not in this position because I care about this country's fortunes (see? not anti-British). I'd also rather the union was not driven apart but you obviously don't care about that if you're a Brexiter. People who don't care about the damage or don't believe in it want it and now swan around telling everyone else they are anti-British! The mind boggles.
"Why do we need to be subjugated to the EUSSR to do trade? "
What a melodramatic thing to say. How on earth were the EU "subjugating" us? Tell me specifically how the EU was oppressing us. The bendy bananas thing you mentioned is a myth by the way, you could at least use truthful examples but I suppose it's necessary to make them up.
//The only reason I mentioned it is that I think it's a shame that the damage of Brexit is being inflicted on us at the behest of people who don't like foreigners.//
Then you need not worry. I want immigration into the UK controlled by the UK government. I want them to control who comes to live here and who doesn't. That's because I don't like the idea that 500m people have the right to settle here and there is nothing the UK government can do to control who they are and what motives they have for coming here. That doesn't mean I don't like foreigners, whether they live in the UK or elsewhere. There is a huge difference between wanting to see immigration controlled and disliking foreigners. So:
- I voted to leave;
- I want to see immigration controlled (though that was not my reason for voting the way I did);
- I do not dislike foreigners.
ergo, your contention is incorrect in my case and probably in many other cases as well. Neither you, nor I, nor anybody else has any idea why people voted the way they did. They did and that's that. You should not make assumptions that you clearly cannot substantiate.
Then you need not worry. I want immigration into the UK controlled by the UK government. I want them to control who comes to live here and who doesn't. That's because I don't like the idea that 500m people have the right to settle here and there is nothing the UK government can do to control who they are and what motives they have for coming here. That doesn't mean I don't like foreigners, whether they live in the UK or elsewhere. There is a huge difference between wanting to see immigration controlled and disliking foreigners. So:
- I voted to leave;
- I want to see immigration controlled (though that was not my reason for voting the way I did);
- I do not dislike foreigners.
ergo, your contention is incorrect in my case and probably in many other cases as well. Neither you, nor I, nor anybody else has any idea why people voted the way they did. They did and that's that. You should not make assumptions that you clearly cannot substantiate.
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