Gordon Brown, "Uk Could Become A Failed State" ......

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/pm-must-reform-the-union-or-risk-uk-becoming-a-failed-state-12198125
Well if it does it'll be primarily your beloved Noo Labour's fault me old china, for enacting the devolution catastrophe. Is it time to reverse that and bring the Union back together? TBH I think England will thrive without the millstones of Wales, Scotland and NI anyway so it's them that need to get their April in gear.

[davebro]

Exactly - if you want good advice why not ask a failed chancellor/PM?

[New Judge]

Quite agree, Tora. Devolution has been a disaster and was bound to promote division and rancour. Each of the three minor members should be given a referendum with this question:

Do you want:

1. Scotland/NI/Wales to ditch its devolved governments and powers and remain a member of the UK or

2. Become a fully independent nation with no further financial support from the Westminster kitty.

(Or words to that effect).

A child of five could have envisaged what the ridiculous devolution arrangements tailored by Blair would lead to.

[Untitled]

it baffles me how you can call other people "anti british" so easily when you obviously don't care at all for the preservation of the union so long as england is fine. Our country is not a spreadsheet. You can't just cast off the expensive bits because they are not currently productive.

[TheChair]

Strange how those most in favour of leaving a voluntary union in which all states are equal are dead set on forcing others into a union of forced
subservience.

[Untitled]

""No country can have national integration without political inclusion, and the commission might start by learning from the experience of countries like Australia, Canada, Germany and America where, partly because of British influence in times past, second chambers are senates of their regions, and minorities who can easily be outvoted are guaranteed a stronger voice"

This sounds like a good idea to me... would be nice for our second chamber to do something useful!

[Jackdaw33]

It's not the English who are anti-British. Give them a choice and let them make their minds up.

[Untitled]

Without the union there is no "Britain" as a country... as someone who loves this country and cares about its future I think it is important that we take preserving that union seriously but i fear too much damage has already been done.

[gulliver1]

Why do immigrants keep trying to get into England , when the Scots etc are trying to get out.
Will TTT eventually have to stand on the white cliffs with his little flag of St George , singing "come and join us".

[Jackdaw33]

You are right; the damage has been done. As a policy devolution has turned out to be a disaster. All it has done is sow division and create rancour and dissent. One can understand the resentment felt by some English who have to pay for benefits, such a tuition and prescriptions, which are enjoyed freely by other members of the union, courtesy of English money.

[Peter Pedant]

oh, its noo-laybuz fault
that's OK then, righto problem solved ( end of: as someone loves writing)

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "it baffles me how you can call other people "anti British" so easily when you obviously don't care at all for the preservation of the union so long as England is fine" - I do care for the union I just get annoyed at all the whinging and whining from those that are subsidised by England.

[Peter Pedant]

yeah righto gully
re fortify Hadrian's wall - that'll keep em out - end off!

it is nice to have a sensible question to discuss after all this Brexit innit?

[Peter Pedant]

Noo nooz - TTT baffled - well he hasnt baffled his mouth, has he?
ter daah !

[Untitled]

The english subsidy has existed long before devolution if I'm not mistaken... personally while I can understand the resentment about money it is part of being a modern country... you can't just let bits of your own country leave because they are not currently useful - the state has a duty to them. The union has lasted centuries and done a lot of good for this country IMO, and it is shortsighted to simply wave it goodbye over money. As I said - our country is not a spreadsheet.

[Untitled]

You obviously don't ToraToraTora if you did then you wouldn't have referred to Wales Scotland and NI as "millstones."

[ToraToraTora]

that's what they are untitled, they are heavily subsidised by England and they'd do well to bear that in mind when they are banging on about different dependence.

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: "The english subsidy has existed long before devolution if I'm not mistaken..." - indeed devolution merely promoted much rancour.
"personally while I can understand the resentment about money it is part of being a modern country..." -
I agree, but if they want to leave the union they should be made aware of what they are giving up.
"you can't just let bits of your own country leave because they are not currently useful - the state has a duty to them."
Once again we agree but we are not "letting" them leave they seem to want to
"The union has lasted centuries and done a lot of good for this country IMO, and it is shortsighted to simply wave it goodbye over money. As I said - our country is not a spreadsheet. " - I agree, who is waving it good bye over money? They may be choosing to leave because they hate the English not because of any economic argument.

[Untitled]

That's not a very unionist attitude ToraToraTora... shut up and listen to England. :/

The union should not be treated a project of english dominance/imperialism over the smaller countries - that is exactly why sturgeon et. al. are suceeding in undermining it. But I sense that the english have shamefully given up on preserving the union so perhaps the breakup of our country is inevitable. How depressing.

[ichkeria]

Untitled is absolutely right:
You spout tosh about the “antiBritish” and in the same breath champion the breakup of the UK.
Bizarre

[ToraToraTora]

Even with the Barnet formula and the subsidy Scotland is not a going concern:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/21/scotland-2018-deficit-higher-than-uk-as-a-whole-last-year
How will they manage if they leave, with their proportion of the national debt (should be x7 but I suspect it wont be) + all the costs of setting up new infrastructure, health, defence, education, police etc?
Scotland are like a 16 year old who think they can leave home and manage without realising all the things that the bank of mum and dad pay for without them even realising it.