Proud Of Britain Yes

[fender62]

with all the loss of life tragedy, and schools jobs etc are you proud to british
thinking were te first to be vaccined and invention, harks back to, again
british inventions leading the world...

[jim360]

I simply don't get the reluctance to study history honestly. It's about helping us move forward, too -- there are lessons from the past about what works and what doesn't that still apply to the future, and, of course, the present.

Perhaps a narrow focus on Slavery in this particularly, which was so utterly evil, is unhelpful -- but there are less egregious mistakes from history that deserve to be recognised and taken as warnings for the future. It's the whole "the only thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history" thing -- well, we certainly don't learn from it if we refuse even to look at it honestly.

Anyhow, the reason I want to study history isn't to feel upset, or to distract myself from the future, or anything else. It helps to understand who we are, who we can be, and what we want to avoid. I don't understand why any of that should be objectionable.

Thanks, China.

[Mamyalynne]

We need to understand how we have got to where we are and that means looking back with the aim being to go forward in as good if not a better way.

[TrevorThePug]

"It helps to understand who we are, who we can be, and what we want to avoid."

Indeed, but there is always a tendency to plant the flag to a time that suits their ideology. Currently a portion of the UK seems to want to relive the halcyon days of a good old world war, or a brief period in the swinging 60s when they saw boobies or a 'bit of ankle' for the first time. Smiles.

[New Judge]

I think your offensive post needs a little dissection, Trevor:

//…Britons are a miserable mess of disillusioned lost souls//

I am neither of those things. I don’t know anybody who fits that description.

//…happy to see British kids go hungry//

I’m not that either. That’s why I pay considerable sums in taxes to help the parents unwilling or unable to feed their children to do so. I can hardly be blamed if, even with that help, they still fail.

//… refugees deported or drowned in dinghies.//

Most of the people who arrive here in dinghies are not refugees. They are economic migrants illegally entering the country. Refugees are fleeing places where their safety is endangered. Those in France are in no such danger.

//If the future is moving away from the current swathe of nationalistic hedonism with a dollop of racism, then maybe it will get better.//

It won’t if it means allowing anybody who fancies it to settle here regardless of the contribution they can make to the UK or their affinity for its values.

//By then most of the current breed of fascists will be dead, so all good.//

You will see from my remarks that they must make me, in your opinion, a fascist (hence my offence). Sorry about that – I just have the best interests of the UK and the people here at heart. I want it to be a good place to live. But your notion that all us (so-called) fascists will die out I’m afraid is forlorn. The majority of the people in this country want to see it as a nice place to live and that trait will continue long after the current bunch of fascists have shuffled off this mortal coil.

//Currently a portion of the UK seems to want to relive the halcyon days of a good old world war, or a brief period in the swinging 60s when they saw boobies or a 'bit of ankle' for the first time.//

Off you go again! Why do you say that? Anybody who was around during WW2 knows what an horrendous time it was. Many of those who lived through it refused to speak of the horrors they endured. Those people who had close friends and relatives who lived through (and very often died in) that conflict will relate their tales. To suggest that anybody would see 1939-45 as “halcyon days” I’m afraid does you no credit whatsoever. The 1960s were a period when Britain was finally beginning to recover from the conflict you make so light of. Young adults of that decade were conceived after that conflict and were acutely aware of the tribulations their parents had endured. They were making the most of the carefree youth of which their parents had been denied.

I think you need to broaden your horizons a little, Trevor. If you believe there is a portion of the population which sees a period of world war as the “golden years” which they long for, then you must live in a different country to me.

[andy-hughes]

Trevor - // Currently a portion of the UK seems to want to relive the halcyon days of a good old world war, or a brief period in the swinging 60s when they saw boobies or a 'bit of ankle' for the first time. Smiles. //

I'm unsure where this 'portion of the UK' is - but if we assume that there is one, then that is simple nostalgia, which by its nature takes a broad sweep of memory, exaggerates all the good bits, and completely forgets all the bad bits.

There is a perverse attitude taken by some people who want to exaggerate the horrors of something like slavery, even beyond how horrible it was, and completely ignore the philanthropy that accompanied it because they want to see that as justification for what went on, which it wasn't - it was simple a by-product of wealth creation at the time.

The entire point of zeroing in on the specific horrors of slavery is so that said section of the population can indulge in the entirely misplaced and inappropriate wearing of metaphorical sackcloth and ashes, in order to advertise to anyone who will listen, and the vast majority who actually don;t care, just how right-on they are with their aching burden of ancestral guilt.

Idiots one and all.

[david small]

Perhaps Trevor should be dropped by parachute into North Korea.
The insight might alter his perspective somewhat.

[eve1974]

I am very proud to be British.... and that is as an immigrant who came here 20 years ago ... the day I got my citizenship, (after 4 years on a spouse visa) I cried.... I took my oath of allegiance and I refer to myself as a Brit who was born in South Africa.

I married a Brit (not for his passport lol!) tjo he refers to himself as English not British

[david small]

You’re more than welcome eve1974.

[eve1974]

Many don’t realise how lucky we are in this country...life is a lot harder in many other places, governments a lot more corrupt.

Many British speak only of our rights as Brits but too many forget our responsibilities

[teacake44]

The good old world war, eh Trevor. And here's me thinking I needed to be more educated. My dad came back from the war, when I say came back, he was still alive, but you could say brain dead. He was in and out of metal homes one after the other, treatment was none existent almost, you were in effect just locked away, apart from the odd walk around the grounds of were you were being kept, behind a 20ft wall. The last time he went in he never came out. To think he went to war to give an idiot like you freedom.

[TrevorThePug]

"To think he went to war to give an idiot like you freedom."

I acknowledge his bravery and appreciate the sacrifice he made.

[andy-hughes]

teacake - // To think he went to war to give an idiot like you freedom. //

And to think that the freedom he went to war for is abused by you, insulting strangers on an internet site.

[TrevorThePug]

"Perhaps Trevor should be dropped by parachute into North Korea.
The insight might alter his perspective somewhat."

Odd suggestion, somewhere along the lines of remove anyone you disagree with. Hmm, fascism.

On another note, I have visited NK for professional reasons.

[teacake44]

AH, if sh** is thrown my way, I was taught to throw it back. Stand there and take it, the more they will throw it. They are called bullies I believe.

[andy-hughes]

teacake - // AH, if sh** is thrown my way, I was taught to throw it back. Stand there and take it, the more they will throw it. They are called bullies I believe. //

Perhaps you should take a deep breath.

If you re-read the posts, there is nothing that justifies you referring to another AB'er as an 'idiot', and I repeat my assertion, please examine the irony of referring to the freedoms won by our parents - when you are using one to insult someone for no good reason.

Maybe if you can refrain from such rudeness, the debate can get back on track.

[TrevorThePug]

Its ok Andy, teacake seems to have assumed (incorrectly) that I was romanticising war. Quite the opposite, but its not a bother to me what teacake thinks. Smiles.

[teacake44]

Take a look at the bottom of your post at 15.46. ( Idiots one and all) I believe you say?

[andy-hughes]

teacake - // Take a look at the bottom of your post at 15.46. ( Idiots one and all) I believe you say? //

Indeed it does - aimed at a section of people, none of whom post on here that I am aware of.

If you are looking for a comparison between my choice of adjective for a non-specific group of individuals unconnected with this site, and your offensive offering to a named individual, then you are going to be out of luck.

[teacake44]

You can always find an excuse for yourself on here to justify what you say, because you can. You've used the same term as me. Practise what you preach .

[andy-hughes]

teacake - // You can always find an excuse for yourself on here to justify what you say, because you can. You've used the same term as me. Practise what you preach . //

I have used the same term - but not in direct reference to someone posting on the thread.

I am not minded to continue this derailing exchange - you have been offensive, the object of your nasty comment has been graceful enough to sidestep it, and I am not going to give you further oxygen by debating semantics with you.

I am returning to the OP, you can join me or not as you wish - I don't care either way.