Crosswords2 mins ago
Border Control.
Will this be enough to protect us from people bringing Covid19 into the UK?
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If Mr Hancock believes that any court in this country will sentence someone to ten years in prison for failing to fill in a form he is sadly mistaken.
Short of banning all international travel into the UK there is no way that variants of the virus which have originated abroad will be prevented from reaching here. Far better to accept that fact than to suffer under any delusions.
There is a much bigger problem at preventing spread within the country caused by community interaction. People will simply not keep out of each other's houses. That cannot be prevented either and introducing the threat of harsher penalties will make no difference.
Short of banning all international travel into the UK there is no way that variants of the virus which have originated abroad will be prevented from reaching here. Far better to accept that fact than to suffer under any delusions.
There is a much bigger problem at preventing spread within the country caused by community interaction. People will simply not keep out of each other's houses. That cannot be prevented either and introducing the threat of harsher penalties will make no difference.
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“ Short of banning all international travel into the UK there is no way that variants of the virus which have originated abroad will be prevented from reaching here”
I agree. I understand the thinking behind this and I’m not be necessarily against it for a while, but for how longer would we be trying to keep all variants of the virus out of the country? The overwhelming likelihood is that vaccines will be adaptable to cope with variants at least to the extent of keeping people out of hospital.
We also don’t have a great record of keeping track of these things and it’s hard to see this being strict enough to work.
I agree. I understand the thinking behind this and I’m not be necessarily against it for a while, but for how longer would we be trying to keep all variants of the virus out of the country? The overwhelming likelihood is that vaccines will be adaptable to cope with variants at least to the extent of keeping people out of hospital.
We also don’t have a great record of keeping track of these things and it’s hard to see this being strict enough to work.
We have already a plentiful supply of our own variant and we are seeking to stop importing variants from other countries which are more transmissible.
Yes this method of border control will indeed help but unfortunately a bit late e.g South African mutant.
Yes, it will depend upon the British obeying, but the chancers will be just that.....chances and suffer the consequences.
I have little confidence in our public, but it is now up to them.
Any focal outbreak maybe detected, hit hard by the test and trace method of quelling outbreaks.
Yes, a step in the right direction, 10 months too late, but better late than never.
Yes this method of border control will indeed help but unfortunately a bit late e.g South African mutant.
Yes, it will depend upon the British obeying, but the chancers will be just that.....chances and suffer the consequences.
I have little confidence in our public, but it is now up to them.
Any focal outbreak maybe detected, hit hard by the test and trace method of quelling outbreaks.
Yes, a step in the right direction, 10 months too late, but better late than never.
The other thing is of course:
Variants will generate here too.
They aren’t just an “abroad” thing.
The time is long long past in any case when we could stop the virus coming into the country. Britain’s strength appears to be the planning and infrastructure for analysis and treatment of the virus and its variants.
We maybe should concentrate on that.
I’m probably not allowed to comment on one of the removed posts: but I will anyway: removing it seemed a tad harsh to say the least.
Variants will generate here too.
They aren’t just an “abroad” thing.
The time is long long past in any case when we could stop the virus coming into the country. Britain’s strength appears to be the planning and infrastructure for analysis and treatment of the virus and its variants.
We maybe should concentrate on that.
I’m probably not allowed to comment on one of the removed posts: but I will anyway: removing it seemed a tad harsh to say the least.
See previous post.
Surprise surprise ... Bristol, that well known city abroad :-)
Am I right in thinking that the frankly OTT (and you may be certain never to be carried out) 10 year jail threat only applies to “red list” destinations? But those are countries which have existing “variants of concern”. New ones could come from anywhere although the justification presumably is that they are countries with high rates of vivid and therefore more likely to spawn new variants. But we’d be in our own red list were it possible. As would surely other countries that are not.
Surprise surprise ... Bristol, that well known city abroad :-)
Am I right in thinking that the frankly OTT (and you may be certain never to be carried out) 10 year jail threat only applies to “red list” destinations? But those are countries which have existing “variants of concern”. New ones could come from anywhere although the justification presumably is that they are countries with high rates of vivid and therefore more likely to spawn new variants. But we’d be in our own red list were it possible. As would surely other countries that are not.
//Am I right in thinking that the frankly OTT (and you may be certain never to be carried out) 10 year jail threat only applies to “red list” destinations?//
Mr Hancock suggested it would be used against anybody who misled the authorities by anybody who provided false information on their "Passenger Locator" form.
Leaving aside the fact that, as I said in another thread, there is not a court in the land who would impose a prison sentence of such length (and in fact I doubt of any length) on a person accused of providing false information in such circumstances, Mr Hancock seems to be relying on legislation which does not cover the situation he envisages. It seems he is relying on the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984. But just about everything to do with containing the spread of disease in that Act involves restrictions on people who have or are suspected of having an infectious disease. I must say I haven't read it all but I cannot find anywhere where restrictions which contain such severe penalties for transgressions apply to people who have simply arrived in the UK from a lace where the disease is suspected of being prevalent. But who would have believed, 12 months ago, that we would discussing a serious warning from a government minister, that people should face 10 years custody for improperly completing a form?
On a wider note, I notice that Mr Hancock is now suggesting that draconian restrictions will remain in force so long as the threat of "variants" persists. That might as well be forever, then, because they will always exist.
Mr Hancock suggested it would be used against anybody who misled the authorities by anybody who provided false information on their "Passenger Locator" form.
Leaving aside the fact that, as I said in another thread, there is not a court in the land who would impose a prison sentence of such length (and in fact I doubt of any length) on a person accused of providing false information in such circumstances, Mr Hancock seems to be relying on legislation which does not cover the situation he envisages. It seems he is relying on the Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984. But just about everything to do with containing the spread of disease in that Act involves restrictions on people who have or are suspected of having an infectious disease. I must say I haven't read it all but I cannot find anywhere where restrictions which contain such severe penalties for transgressions apply to people who have simply arrived in the UK from a lace where the disease is suspected of being prevalent. But who would have believed, 12 months ago, that we would discussing a serious warning from a government minister, that people should face 10 years custody for improperly completing a form?
On a wider note, I notice that Mr Hancock is now suggesting that draconian restrictions will remain in force so long as the threat of "variants" persists. That might as well be forever, then, because they will always exist.
I’ve just been reading about the “ten year” threat. Apparently Downing Street said MPs will not be asked to vote on the plans as the government will be including the restrictions under the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981. I’ve just had a glance at that. The only offences which attract a ten year sentence are those in Part One which is concerned with forgery and uttering false instruments. This is all about counterfeiting and making forgeries of documents or instruments. It relates specifically to producing documents which are not what they purport to be. If somebody fills in an official form but with incorrect or misleading information that is not forgery.
Lord Sumption wrote today that he suspects the Health Secretary is losing touch with reality. I’m inclined to agree. I suspect (as does Sir Kier Starmer, former Director of Public Prosecutions) that there is not a cat in Hell’s chance of anybody going to prison for the offence outlined by Mr Hancock because, if it is associated with the forgery and Counterfeiting Act, no offence will have been committed at all.
Just what is happening here? People threatened with ten years in the Chokey for an offence which, on the face of it, appears not to exist (well certainly not within the legislation it is said to fall under).
Lord Sumption wrote today that he suspects the Health Secretary is losing touch with reality. I’m inclined to agree. I suspect (as does Sir Kier Starmer, former Director of Public Prosecutions) that there is not a cat in Hell’s chance of anybody going to prison for the offence outlined by Mr Hancock because, if it is associated with the forgery and Counterfeiting Act, no offence will have been committed at all.
Just what is happening here? People threatened with ten years in the Chokey for an offence which, on the face of it, appears not to exist (well certainly not within the legislation it is said to fall under).
Think you might find that this is just a precursor to linking the entry into the UK, or indeed any Country that goes down that route, with a covid "passport" offering exemption or 10 days in chokie. A counterfeit covid passport is liable to be linked to the, rightfully, strict forgery statutes and a false declaration of place of origin will be itself considered as fraudulent. Good.
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