This Is Getting Out Of Hand.......

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1395811/Piers-Morgan-NHS-midwives-transgender-chestfeeding-breastfeeding-GMB-video
Mother = Birthing parent! Breast feeding = Chest feeding! For gawds sake how far are we expected to go to accommodate these people?

[pixie374]

It's stupid advice. People (women especially) have the right to say so. While it is not good anywhere, maternal services should be the absolute last place to invite misogyny.

[naomi24]

// This is advice. //

It's nonsense.

[jim360]

There's no misogyny here. The advice specially makes clear that women should be treated with respect, and that staff should "use language that is meaningful and appropriate to the individual". Women are still mothers, they still breastfeed. That doesn't change.

[jim360]

Maybe it is stupid advice, and maybe it is nonsense. You're entitled to say so and think otherwise. What people aren't entitled to do is put the debate ahead of the needs of the patient. Since (I assume) nobody at AB works here, then this will literally never be an issue for anybody.

[pixie374]

It will never change. Why do we need to pretend it has? Why are women (people with a cervix, if you prefer) waiting longer, so men can be tested instead? Why would a woman who is confident and knowledgeable enough about her sex, to actually give birth, need to be called "he" or use the words "chestfeeding"?

[Chinajan]

Words are important, particularly in a medical context. Breast pain is quite distinct from chest pain for instance.

This all begs the question: if a biological female chooses to transition and live life as a man for the usually quoted reason of feeling as though they're 'in the wrong body' [and I have no problem with that to be clear], then why would they want to give birth?

[pixie374]

The problem is, that it is being put against the needs of patients.

[Mozz71]

I don't quite get why "breast" is now an exclusovely female term. In armoury, you have a chestplate. It doesn't mean it's boob shaped for the ladies (it can be, but the same term is used). Is the sternum only known as the breastbone in female skeletons? Nope.

Dumbass idea.

[jim360]

// This all begs the question: if a biological female chooses to transition and live life as a man for the usually quoted reason of feeling as though they're 'in the wrong body' [and I have no problem with that to be clear], then why would they want to give birth? //

Who knows? But, more to the point, why does it matter? Their body, their choice.

// The problem is, that it is being put against the needs of patients. //

No it isn't. I don't know how else to put this, but it simply isn't.

[jim360]

https://www.bsuh.nhs.uk/maternity/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2021/01/Gender-Inclusive-Language-in-Perinatal-Services-BSUH.pdf

For people who wish to at least know properly what it is they are disagreeing with, rather than a complete misrepresentation of it.

[pixie374]

It is, jim- and you know that, probably more so than anyone else posting. This isn't even the tip of the iceberg and it is only now, very slowly, starting to be publicised. And suggesting "woman" or "mother" doesn't mean what we think it does, can only be misogynistic.
Their body, their choice. Our language, our choice.

[jim360]

In the sense that discussions like this are unhelpful, and a distraction from the real issues, sure. It bothers me that this is allowed to become the topic of conversation, as opposed to "what are you going to do to ensure that trans people have the same rights that you enjoy? The same access to healthcare that you enjoy? The same freedoms to live a life free of harassment and abuse?"

[pixie374]

Only if you ignore the issues that women say they have, Jim.
// "what are you going to do to ensure that trans people have the same rights that you enjoy? The same access to healthcare that you enjoy? The same freedoms to live a life free of harassment and abuse?"//

They already have exactly those rights, the same as everyone else.

Which rights do they not have, that everyone else does?

[jim360]

Do they? Are you sure? Are you going to make certain? Are you going to hold the Government to account if they ever deviate, or threaten to? It's more than a legal question, too; it's more than a question of the situation in this country, too.

One need only look at the ongoing battle in the US to see that "[trans people] already have [equal rights]" is complacency in general. It was only in June last year that the US Supreme Court ruled that trans people are entitled to equal protection from discrimination in the workplace.

[Jackdaw33]

I would be very interested to learn exactly what %age of people in the UK are 'trans' and need special treatment.

[pixie374]

Yes, I am certain, Jim. Which rights are you claiming they don't have now?

[jim360]

Approximately 0.5%-1%, although estimates vary.

[naomi24]

This reminds me of someone’s dotty old Uncle Fred who’s convinced he’s Queen Victoria and the whole family indulging him because no one dare upset him by speaking the truth.

[pixie374]

It seems to vary according to context, jackdaw.
One minute, there are enough to change our language and policies, and the next "not enough to affect ME!".