A Reasonable Response Or Not?

[ichkeria]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56404542

[bobbinwales]

prudie you missed out half my sentence - quoting half a sentence is silly but if it helps you feel better and think you put me in my place you go for it girl.

[woofgang]

bobbinwales "Thanks woofgang but thats not something that was in my mind- too medical. I was answering the query about why its been raised as a issue with AZ but not phiezzer (yet?)"

I think its one of those "correlation does not imply causation" things. PP jokes about "OMG my cat died and i got vaccinated yesterday it must have caused my cat to die" and we see that as an unlikely causation, but to us "He/she got vaccinated and now has a rare thrombosis" does appear more likely, especially in the EU where there have already been issues with the AZ vaccine because its "British"

[Prudie]

On the contrary it is you who have put people in their place for months, constantly saying anything is better than getting covid, you even said it was a worse death than cancer. I could have pasted your whole answer, it would have made no difference, mixing vaccines or whatever you suggested you still maintain whatever the side effects it's better than getting covid.

[woofgang]

• Treat others as you would like to be treated and respect other people’s opinions. Discussions can get passionate but users should moderate their language and refrain from personal attacks and profanity. We encourage lively debate but name calling, harassment or abuse will not be tolerated. Any instances of members referring to other members as anything but their preferred names will be removed. Repeated offences will result in suspensions.

[237SJ]

I can't see that those 'rules' have been broken by anyone on this thread.

[Peter Pedant]

// maybe they will read the facts and the research and be a little less worried.//
no they dont - this is AB for chrissakes not some sort of Brains Trust

[dave50]

Oh for goodness sake, some people love an excuse to be worried about anything, life is a risk, some are lucky, some aren't, end of. Just have the damn vaccine, there's nothing wrong with it and let's all just get back to normal.

[ichkeria]

"Well I wasn't but thanks to this thread , I am now ! "

I don't think there is any need to be worried: that's not to say though that it isn't right to be cautious.
Most if not all of the countries involved have a backlog of AZ supplies, and many are already facing electorates unhappy about a slow roll-out, so I would be a bit surprised if there is anything "political" about this other than posterior-covering.
The last thing anyone needs is a willy-waving "we are faster and better than you" approach from either side.

[pixie374]

I think it's a reasonable response, if there is a genuine concern or uncertainty. They can hardly wait a year and then say "we suspected that ages ago".
But- considering millions and millions of people have been vaccinated in a very short space of time, it would be more surprising if there were no "unfortunate timings", where someone dies shortly after, but would have anyway.
Or, as my mum said- maybe people are getting blood clots, because they have been off work and sat watching netflix for a year... which I hadn't considered...

[Apc2604]

Your Mum has a point Pixie!

[woofgang]

But more people are not getting thromboses! Its a mess up between "ordinary" thromboses, which are not increasing, and cerebral venous sinus thrombosis which is rare, which does seem to be showing a small increase, but is already known to be associated with the Covid infection itself. NOT with the vaccination, but with the illness. http://www.ajnr.org/content/early/2020/06/18/ajnr.A6644

[pixie374]

I'm not saying it is, woof.... but do we already know definitely that is is "not" related to vaccine?

[woofgang]

pixie its unlikely.....In the UK we have a high percentage of people vaccinated including folk who are at generally higher risk of thrombosis and are taking medications for it or who have had thromboses in the past and have seen no nada zip zero increase in the usual incidence rate.

[pixie374]

I know, woof, I was just saying that proving covid causes clots, doesn't prove a vaccine doesn't.

[woofgang]

oh and in the pre roll out testing there was no evidence of it.

[woofgang]

are you talking about ordinary thrombosis or CVST?

[pixie374]

Either, whichever is being suspected now. Saying we don't have the evidence, isn't quite the same as saying it isn't possible. I'm interested to see what they find. Personally, I think it's coincidental, but I don't actually know.

[woofgang]

I think the fact that so many people have been vaccinated in the Uk with both Pfizer and AZ with a ZERO increase in thromboses is pretty solid evidence. Its the inverse of the excess deaths argument! About CVST I agree its less easy to be certain because of itself its very rare...its still very rare with no evidence of increase but if its a rare thing, then the "where are the cases?" evidence is less easy to amass.

[pixie374]

No excess, is convincing enough for me.

[royfromaus]

I stick by my first post.
The mainland Europeans are being assholes.