Capital Punishment - Read on

[Drisgirl]

Grampian News has just headlined with the news that a man who has served 18 yrs in jail for murder has had his sentence quashed.New evidence has come to light along with the confession of a con.

Now where do the' hang em and flog em' brigade stand with this?

Do not forget this man is now innocent - end of.

[LATECOMER]

Hi Drisgirl. I know what you are saying about this instance, but what would be your view if you knew for certain that someone was guilty of murder. Very difficult in modern times to get a mistaken verdict. Do you think it's ok for somebody to be convicted, serve their sentence and, as happens, go on to kill again. Very few murdering scum leave prison to become "model citizens"

[Drisgirl]

LATECOMER - I am a staunch advocate of life meaning life. (They usually try and at times are successfull at taking their own).What does that tell you about the thought of spending the rest of your living days incarcerated.Capital punishment is painless and easy for them.

I would rather free up the jails by rehabilitation of petty offenders.

[Drisgirl]

Stevie - Tumshie heid - I'll have yours scraped out with a candle in it for next halloween :)

Off to pub quiz now to astound everyone with my knowledge (really to have a pint and keep one eye on the Rangers match)

[LATECOMER]

Drisgirl. In the real world we are pretty much of the same mind then. Life should mean life. You off to the pub then? I once went to a pub quiz and was late! The quizmaster gave us a group name, LATECOMERS

[Drisgirl]

LOL - LATECOMER..

We shouldnt have even bothered turning up - 2nd in first half - last at end of the Quiz.

I think at the end of the day we all agree and I do understand the opposing view to me - its only human nature after all but its not humane in this world.

Like a good healthy debate and also to hear other peoples views (believe it or not) !!

[El D]

So I'm confused -

1.It would likely cost as much to execute someone as to keep them in prison considering the length of the appeals process necessary
2. The death penalty is not a deterrent to crime - this is dependant on social and cultural factors
3. It robs the state of any moral authority

So as a lawful, financial and moral tool it simply doesn't work. All it does is make the mob feel as though the problem has gone away.

[johnlambert]

The problem HAS gone away el D, the killer dies, ipso facto he/she doesnt kill again.

End of

[Drisgirl]

No John - the killer could still be at large.

End of (cheeky) :)

[jimmer]

i'd like everyone who uses the expression "end of" executed. That said i don't think capital punishment is either desirable or likely to be re-introduced. mp's get a free vote on the subject and still say no. Its only really on the minds of daily mail/sun readers who think that britain would be great again if only we could drive out every ounce of tolerence we have gained. That mp's can ignore this populist bile is of great credit to our democracy.

jim

[Drisgirl]

Jim -So you would have people who use the phrase 'End of' executed but not murderers.Think you are at odds with yourself.Can I help in any way?

I am a Sun reader and proud of it - and totally anti capital punishment so again you are at odds with your comments.

Anyway that wasnt the issue on a serious note - my origanal Q was to illustrate a point and just as an addendum I dont think MP's would be given the mantle of deciding ad hoc if capital punishment should be re-introduced.It would have to be part of their party manifesto at election time to allow us -the masses to make a reasoned choice as to who we choose to vote for thereby giving them the power to make a decision on the behalf of the majority.End of.

BTW - I would tar and feather anyone who signs off with their name.;)

[jimmer]

Would I lie to you? MP's have a free vote on matters of concience and that includes the death penalty. the last time it was debated was 1994 where it was defeated 403 - 159. There are currently no plans to debate it again although David Davis was apparently in favour!

I also hate the expression "do one" and "ey ey". i cant think of suitable punishments for these expressionsat the moment but they'd be "off the scale". i'm sorry that you read the sun.

jim

[Drisgirl]

I dont think you would lie to me but I am sure that it has to be in a manifesto before it can be debated.Just the same as when someone appeals against the length of time they have been incarcerated - it goes to the Appeal Court and the Home Secretary merely echoes their judgement.

Dont feel sorry for me for reading the Sun - I am happy in my own skin - I have outed myself !!

[stevie_c2it]

Well, you should put it back in!

The shame of it a woman of your age too!

No need for capital pubnishment though, reading the 'Sun' is punishment enough!

[Drisgirl]

Stevie - As I have already told you I was a child bride with 2 toddlers already.I have even been on Trisha.

You just couldnae help yerself - the minute the Sun is mentioned the antennae come out.Come out the closet and admit you read it - I will give you all the support you need.You know you want to.!

[lizzierose]

i can't believe no-one has mentioned america here

since capital punishment was re-introduced in 1970, 25 innocent people have been executed. which makes the federal government a bloody serial killer and up for the same punishment

and have you all forgotten about the case of the man, i forget his name, which is unfortunate as he is probably dead now of the man who was insane and therefore unelligible for execution who they treated adn drugged so he was sane enough to kill

all these arguments likekilling people who you are only absolutley sure about, should certainly alos apply to people who have their freedom take away from them for the best part of their lives but mistakes still get made

once a system is in place it can be flawed and corrupted, nobody should have the power and authority to kill anybody legally. its barbaric

[Drisgirl]

lizzierose-What you have said makes perfect sense to me.

I suspect the fact America has not been mentioned is lack of knowledge.Every state has their own policies and the executions are often postponed at the eleventh hour due to further legal technicalities.I cant speak for anyone else but I simply lose track and it rarely makes news in the UK.

Your reasoned response backs my anti capital punishment views.

[SarCaustic]

This is a very complex issue, but I do not believe that capital punishmen is the answer. Those who site "the technology of this day and age" and the like as foolproof systems of ensuring that only the guilty are just making sweeping statements with no validity. Today we hace great teams of forensic, who identify people using their DNA, fingerprints, the fibres on the clothes they are wearing, the material of their shoes and countless other methods. But any expert will tell you that even this evidence can be comproised - what if two sets of fingerprints or two sets of DN A are found, with one being entirely unrelated to the crime?I would be in favour of capital punish, were there any cases where the evidence is 100% absolute and conclusive.The likelyhood of that maybe high, but as the possibility of an innocent person still exists; the cost of executing any number of guilty people is still too high.

[Drisgirl]

SarCaustic - Apart from agreeing with your comments,at the end of the day capital punishment is barbaric entailing another person murdering another person.Where does it stop?It has also been proved its not a deterrent.

BTW - Also agree with your notes on technology.Even DNA can only prove it belongs to the person not that they were there - someone could plant it.Bet its happened.

[Octavius]

The celebrated british executioner Albert Pierrepoint (who incidentally executed 13 german war criminals. amongst others) was an opnent of capital punishment. He said in his 1974 autobiography:

"I have come to the conclusion that executions solve nothing, and are only an antiquated relic of a primitive desire for revenge which takes the easy way and hands over the responsibility for revenge to other people...The trouble with the death penalty has always been that nobody wanted it for everybody, but everybody differed about who should get off."

Somebody mentioned Edith Thomspon. John Ellis was the hangman who committed suicide after years of torment from her execution. When she dropped through the trap, she had suffered a massive haemorrhage. The large amount of blood spilled, combined with the fact that Thompson had gained weight during her imprisonment even while resisting food, led to conjecture that she had been pregnant.

In a terribly botched hanging in 1950 at Norwich Prison. Norman Goldthorpe, was strangled to death when his hood became caught in the eye of the noose instead of breaking his neck and took several minutes to die.

With so-called 'humane' methods such as lethal injection, people have been known to take up to fifteen minutes to die in the most agonising way, as their vital organs shut down. In the gas chamber, the condemned prisoner is told to gulp in the cyanide as it enters the chamber. But the involuntary struggle for life can result in a slow and painful death.

In 1983, when John Evans was executed in the elctric chair, flames were seen shooting from Evans' face mask while he struggled for breath. It took fourteen minutes to kill him.

For another viewpoint, read this

[Drisgirl]

Octavius

I feel physically sick having read this.If anyone was pro capital punishment then this gives them food for thought.

Syd the executioner was in my opinion a sick man getting his kicks from killing people - a bit like the official murderer he was.

Thank you for this horrendous insight.