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Is This Britain's Harvey Weinstein?
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Not that it overly matters, lankeela, but have you ever asked domestic abuse victims why they stuck around and endured it?
It's very easy when you're on the outside looking in to condemn the victim for being overly tolerant; not so difficult when you're that person, having to reconcile the contradiction between what's happening to you and how you feel about the abuser.
It's very easy when you're on the outside looking in to condemn the victim for being overly tolerant; not so difficult when you're that person, having to reconcile the contradiction between what's happening to you and how you feel about the abuser.
//...but have you ever asked domestic abuse victims why they stuck around and endured it?//
Their explanations vary. Women with children who are dependent on their partner for financial support and housing often quote that as a reason. Others say "he loves me really". Yet more say they do not want to see their partner in trouble. The average number of attacks that a DV victim suffers before involving the police is somewhere in the order of fifteen or more. The CPS has a policy of pursuing prosecutions regardless of the wishes of the alleged victim though this is often difficult.
//...but I am sad to see the comment about "sadly women have lost their ability to deal with lecherous men" or words to that effect. We should never have needed it. No one should.//
No, ideally it shouldn't be necessary. But it is. You have to deal with life as it is, not as you'd like it to be.
Their explanations vary. Women with children who are dependent on their partner for financial support and housing often quote that as a reason. Others say "he loves me really". Yet more say they do not want to see their partner in trouble. The average number of attacks that a DV victim suffers before involving the police is somewhere in the order of fifteen or more. The CPS has a policy of pursuing prosecutions regardless of the wishes of the alleged victim though this is often difficult.
//...but I am sad to see the comment about "sadly women have lost their ability to deal with lecherous men" or words to that effect. We should never have needed it. No one should.//
No, ideally it shouldn't be necessary. But it is. You have to deal with life as it is, not as you'd like it to be.
No I haven't, mainly because I am fortunate in not knowingly knowing any victims. If I did I would not be able to contain my disappointment at their reasoning. I think back to my mum and dad, who never so much as raised their voices in anger to each other or any of their three children. My mum also readily welcomed friends into her home if she felt they needed a place to stay.
Not entirely, nj. While having to be realistic, it's also worth being rational. If we don't start and expect people to be responsible for their own decisions, nothing changes. And, while we blame victims, nothing changes. Surely even some improvement is worthwhile? And even if that doesn't work, why make victims feel worse, instead of perpetrators?
I'm not blaming victims, pixie. What I'm saying is that if they have an issue with their treatment, they should deal with it immediately - either themselves or by reporting it. Justice delayed is justice denied and that applies equally to alleged victims and alleged perpetrators. Mr Clarke has lost a large chunk of his livelihood on the basis on unsubstantiated allegations, some of them from some time ago. The allegations of alleged victims should not be unconditionally believed the alleged perpetrators should not be summarily punished. "Operation Yewtree" should have provided an adequate demonstration of why that should be. But it seems "lessons" were not learned.
New Judge, I don't need to point out to you that you are obviously a man, therefore, you have no idea how a female, young or old, feels when she is approached by a vulgar man. Not all females are strong enough to do something about this , but once somebody is strong enough to report it, it gives others the strength to come forward. Whatever this man has done, he needs to understand that his actions are not correct and he needs to do something about it.
I'm not saying you are blaming victims personally, nj. It's just how society works, and I could say more about it. But, for as long as we do- we are excusing those who think they can do what they like.
This is a much broader subject, than saying, just complain straightaway, everyone will believe you and it will be sorted.
This is a much broader subject, than saying, just complain straightaway, everyone will believe you and it will be sorted.
.//but I am sad to see the comment about "sadly women have lost their ability to deal with lecherous men" or words to that effect. We should never have needed it. No one should.//
New Judge "No, ideally it shouldn't be necessary. But it is. You have to deal with life as it is, not as you'd like it to be. "
yes, but along with that we need to not tolerate wrongdoing and to work together to make it better. otherwise what is the law for?
New Judge "No, ideally it shouldn't be necessary. But it is. You have to deal with life as it is, not as you'd like it to be. "
yes, but along with that we need to not tolerate wrongdoing and to work together to make it better. otherwise what is the law for?
I'm on a similar stance to NJ and ...Im a woman.
In an ideal world all mean would be gentlemen...but it's not an ideal world. Many (no not all) men are indeed lecherous and as women we should be empowering our daughters to do something about it ...at that instant. Person to person. Not via media.
Not waiting years.
The "me too" movement is not empowering women - it is turning them into weak people who can only bleat about alleged offences years after the fact.
Again - I (like in my post earlier this morning) I am NOT excusing rape or sexual violence. AT ALL. That is a very different scenario.
In an ideal world all mean would be gentlemen...but it's not an ideal world. Many (no not all) men are indeed lecherous and as women we should be empowering our daughters to do something about it ...at that instant. Person to person. Not via media.
Not waiting years.
The "me too" movement is not empowering women - it is turning them into weak people who can only bleat about alleged offences years after the fact.
Again - I (like in my post earlier this morning) I am NOT excusing rape or sexual violence. AT ALL. That is a very different scenario.
Eve... I couldn't disagree more. We have spent centuries teaching daughters to "avoid it". It hasn't worked.
But how many people positively lecture their sons on behaving properly? I admit, even though my sons are not party animals... I assume I have taught them to respect people- but I don't lecture them every time they go out.
We are concentrating on the wrong people here- and as long as we continue to accept that- the longer it continues.
But how many people positively lecture their sons on behaving properly? I admit, even though my sons are not party animals... I assume I have taught them to respect people- but I don't lecture them every time they go out.
We are concentrating on the wrong people here- and as long as we continue to accept that- the longer it continues.
Also a quick response to:
//men will be men and it happens- accept it... //
Some (a minority thankfully) men just ARE that way. Always will be. So yes unfortunately we have to accept that there are predatory men around. Its a fact. It won't go away.
Just the same as there are women (again minority) who will cry "victim" at a good opportunity. Despite likely not feeling victimised at the time.
Also reply to //while also expecting women to be perfectly rational enough to report it immediately.//.
Nope I for one think that reporting it is often not the best solution (particularly if it involves building your career in early days) Rather the best solutions incl things like avoiding being alone with the man, or if thats not possible then a few choice words at the instant.
Maybe I am one of the lucky ones though as I am confident enough to deal with this sort of thing on my own.
//men will be men and it happens- accept it... //
Some (a minority thankfully) men just ARE that way. Always will be. So yes unfortunately we have to accept that there are predatory men around. Its a fact. It won't go away.
Just the same as there are women (again minority) who will cry "victim" at a good opportunity. Despite likely not feeling victimised at the time.
Also reply to //while also expecting women to be perfectly rational enough to report it immediately.//.
Nope I for one think that reporting it is often not the best solution (particularly if it involves building your career in early days) Rather the best solutions incl things like avoiding being alone with the man, or if thats not possible then a few choice words at the instant.
Maybe I am one of the lucky ones though as I am confident enough to deal with this sort of thing on my own.
Of course if want it stopped. Just the same as Id want murderers, thieves, child abusers etc etc stopped.
But its not an ideal world.
There will always be ar*eh0les ... we can't stop that.
So just like we teach our kids not to take candy from strangers we should be teaching our daughters to extricate themselves from situations foisted upon them.
But its not an ideal world.
There will always be ar*eh0les ... we can't stop that.
So just like we teach our kids not to take candy from strangers we should be teaching our daughters to extricate themselves from situations foisted upon them.
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