Prince Andrew (Enough Said)

[Bobbisox1]

https://news.sky.com/story/prince-andrew-us-lawsuit-accuses-royal-of-sexually-abusing-virginia-giuffre-12377669

I’ve read the transcript but I’m not sure how anyone could be ‘forced’ to have sex at 17 yrs old unless they had a gun to her head, otherwise this would surely be rape wouldn’t it?
I’m no fan of PA, far from it but again just wondered how she was ‘forced’ to have sex with him and other prominent figures,and I’m not saying she’s to blame either but I would like to know

[naomi24]

Dave, your comparison does the young victims of grooming gangs a great disservice.

[Bobbisox1]

Then he should be extradited to the United States in that case Dave, no messing

[Peter Pedant]

Yes - 0600 R4 - I very nearly wrote to them ! - "at 18 she was underage", er no not in London

and why are they bringing the case in New York for actions in London ?

yeah and no wonder Prince Randy wouldnt answer the letters - lets parley means 1) he has something to parley about and 2) he will use some of his mothers moolah again to pay the gal off

and the questions of perjury - is Ghislaine ( shee-larn that is! alleged Giuffre is perjuring herself or is it Jee-larn) herself who is the ickle liar?

foo I feel for Randy Andy I do

I think part of the beebs difficulty is that the fluffy Beebstas think they cannot comment on an ongoing case ( they can) and so they give one side free rein.
and allow that side to come out with any old crap

[davebro]

So if you're groomed & trafficked for sex by rich, entitled toffs it's your fault but if it's done by taxi drivers & waiters you're a victim?

[Peter Pedant]

// Dave, your comparison does the young victims of grooming gangs a great disservice.//

but luckily we arent discussing grooming gangs - or shouldnt be - this is a civil case, extradition is not involved
and bringing a case in a foreign jurisdiction ( America that is!) is fraught with the issues we are now facing

other than that, for an AB thread this is on course

[eve74]

TY Bobbi- yes meeting my Husb (I was 22 then) kinda “saved” me. (Ergh doesn’t that sound like a cliche)
But when I told him (just a small bit!) of some events he put a lot of pressure on me to lay charges. We argued a lot about it tbh! I refused.

I steadfastly - to this day - believe I had free will.

I was NOT forced into anything. I made poor judgements- like a lot of teens. The older wiser me wld be different.

Of course none of us know the full story with PA / Epstein but …. My gut feeling is most (not all probably) of those women were coerced - not forced. And coercion is a very different thing. I doubt these women wld give it much thought today (like me - shove it to back of mind) if PA wasn’t filthy rich and in public eye. Anyway even if she wins a landslide victory against PA it won’t stop him -he will just be more careful in future. Predatory males exist. Always will. Sadly!

[Peter Pedant]

You get a different view of all this, if you are faced with ridiculous allegations which you are then invited to refute

(which happens in England and you are quite right is NOT how the law is set up to work)

They have to prove - Randie Andie is not required to refute

Giuffre? oh she is in Oz - - did you know?

[Bobbisox1]

PP why do you insist on c&p stuff that Naomi writes, it’s tiresome and could be seen as you either trolling or virtual stalking her

[Peter Pedant]

Andie is randy I dont think we doubt that
and he isnt rich - his mother paid last time

[Peter Pedant]

or it could
it just COULD be seen as fair comment on a post which we all have er free will to make

[Sqad]

Excellent post by eve at 0831 which has neutralised my impending post.

The Americans are making fools of the Brits, firstly Meghan and now this woman accusing Prince Andrew.

She is a Call Girl, prostitute and slapper both benefitting indifferent ways from these sexual events.

Once again great post by eve.

[Peter Pedant]

naomi - what you write is tiresome
you have got it from the horses mouth

I am but a mouthpiece echoinig the more gormless and stupid pensees that surface on AB

BUT back to Andie - This is a civil suit that is brought in a foreign jurisdiction. All right Lawyers amongst you - who many suits and crimes have been brought against grooming gangs in Rochdale in New York? or California or Thailand

none do I hear none PP ?

[Bobbisox1]

Eve, I’m sure money plays a huge part in this saga,maybe rightly so if it’s affected her, he should man up if the allegations aren’t true , he’s used to freebie air travel so he should get over the pond to refute them( if they aren’t true)

[dannyk13]

I think she is just tying to make money out of this.She certainly does not look to have been forced to do anything judging by her happy smiling face.

[naomi24]

Dave, //So if you're groomed & trafficked for sex by rich, entitled toffs it's your fault but if it's done by taxi drivers & waiters you're a victim?//

The victims of grooming gangs were/are very young girls. There is no comparison.

Bobbi, PP can’t help himself. He’s been suffering from his unhealthy obsession with my posts for years. I keep telling him to consult his doctor but so far it seems it hasn’t. Nothing changes.

[eve74]

I don’t think he has any reason to “man up” (although yes I still think he’s a toad).

There ought to be no charge. What happened happened.

It was poor judgement on BOTH sides.

At 17 she took a choice. A choice which an older wiser her wld not have made.

She was young n dumb but had free will. He was older n wiser but thought with his ***.

Nothing more complicated than that.

She shld shelve it in her mind as lessons learnt n move on.

(Ps I wld like to amend my post at 8:49 wherein I said Husb “saved” me. Nope on reflection - he didn’t -. I didn’t need “saving” I just needed a bit more maturity and common sense! Which I wldv got with time - even had I not met husb.

This post is making me reflect on things I haven’t for a long time. It’s good (for me) as I usually file in under “the mistakes not to be repeated” segment of my brain n don’t give it much thought.

Which incidentally is probably where Guiffre filed hers and was living with no ill effects until she realised $$ cld be made.

[chelle7272]

//The victims of grooming gangs were/are very young girls. There is no comparison.//

Of course there is. Some of the girls Epstein trafficked were very young. We don't know the history of this girl either and at what age she was groomed into thinking this was a normal way of life or if she felt she had no way out. You do lots of women a huge disservice.

[naomi24]

She was 17 when that picture was taken, chelle, and she visited that house several times voluntarily. The girls dave refers to were/are children - 12, 13, 14 year olds. I do no one a disservice.

[andy-hughes]

Bobbi - // I’ve read the transcript but I’m not sure how anyone could be ‘forced’ to have sex at 17 yrs old unless they had a gun to her head, otherwise this would surely be rape wouldn’t it?
I’m no fan of PA, far from it but again just wondered how she was ‘forced’ to have sex with him and other prominent figures,and I’m not saying she’s to blame either but I would like to know //

As others have pointed out, the subtle art of manipulation on damaged personalities makes coercion an unpleasant fact of life - and I believe that is what has gone on here.

At best, Prince Andrew comes out of this as a sleazy brainless idiot who couldn't make a sensible choice if his life depended on it.

As it turns out, only his public life will suffer.

[andy-hughes]

PP - // Andie is randy ... //

Why do you persistently mis-spell this name?