Credit Where It's Due......

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60421994
...I don't often agree with the GOAS but she's bang on here. The abacus objects, you can't get a better endorsement than that!

[Mozz71]

Couldn't agree more. If someone is waving a weapon around in a crowded area, aim between the eyes before an innocent gets help.

The only issue for me is that the U.K. doesn't head into a American style of policing, where a 12 year old with a potato gun gets shot.

[Canary42]

/// a 12 year old with a potato gun gets shot ///

Or a guy running for a train.

R I P Jean Charles de Menezes

[Mozz71]

Agreed Canary, I'm talking about those who are clearly intending nastiness, not an unarmed man with the wrong colour skin.

[gulliver1]

Well said Angela.

[237SJ]

On things like law and order, I'm like, quite hard-line, I'm like, you know, shoot terrorists and ask questions second, She sounds really well informed.

[237SJ]

I think I might follow her on Facebook..like.

[jim360]

The dispute between Abbott and Raynor on this seems like a classic example of speaking at cross-purposes. I think Abbott would accept that, if it's clear or at least highly probable that a given person is about to commit a terrorist attack that will cost many lives, then the police should intervene with deadly force in order to prevent this. If that's the only way to stop an imminent threat, then it's necessary. On the other hand, if there are alternatives to deadly force that would just as well stop the threat -- for example, because they can arrest the suspect before they reach their target -- then those should clearly be preferred.

It's pretty obvious that Raynor meant the first case, ie police shouldn't be prevented from using deadly force when necessary, but held to strict standards on what counts as necessary; and it seems equally obvious that Abbott's criticism is based on a misreading of Raynor's point.

[Peter Pedant]

// I'm like, quite hard-line, I'm like, you know, shoot terrorists and ask questions second,//

questions like - - are you a terrorist by any chance
No I am an ordinary tube traveller - bamma lamma bamma lamma anyway

[Stickybottle]

Abbott probably only challenged her because the vast majority of terrorists are typically not white males but tend be be
How can I put it

A tad duskier in skin pigmentation than the average WASP

[jno]

it used to be just Irish they rounded up and jailed, Stickybottle.

In the Menezes case, the person in charge was of course Cressida.

[Stickybottle]

Indeed she was jno

That sort of catastraf*** in any other police force or constabulary would have been career ending

Which again would lead to speculation that she was only ever given the top job because of her gender and sexual orientation in order to fill a quota

[Gromit]

Not sure she is right and I can’t really agree with her but…

Her constituency is a few miles from Manchester Arena where a terrorist just walked into a group of young people and blew them to smithereens. He was unchallenged despite behaving suspiciously.

There was the IRA cell on Gibraltar who were planning an attack, and all were killed before they could fulfil their plan.

Sometimes, ambiguously legal preventative action can avert a terrorist attack were many innocents die.

[tomus42]

The authorities had prior knowledge of the IRA Gibraltar attack, and so killed them on their way to do it. Good.

No-one knew about the Manchester bomber's plan unfortunately.

[ichkeria]

Angela Rayner's ok.
She does let her passion run away with her at times, but she's no Corbynista like Long-Bailey.
I see her as Starmer's version of Two-Jags :-)

[jim360]

Not that she reads this, but apologies for misspelling Rayner's name -- three times. I did check it, too, but apparently couldn't read last night.

[Khandro]

She's got lovely hair.

[davebro]

They shoulda shot Lee Rigby's killers on the spot. End of.

Damn savages...

[Mozz71]

That she has Khandro, that she has.

[Stickybottle]

davebro
They shoulda shot Lee Rigby's killers on the spot. End of.

Damn savages..
———
They did
Armed police hit both upon their arrival at the scene
Sadly they were not head shots and both survived

[jim360]

It seems that in the last moments of their attack, Lee Rigby's killers wanted to become martyrs. It's notable for example that, having murdered Rigby, they asked bystanders to call the police, waited around 15 minutes, and finally charged armed with a gun and a cleaver only once armed police had arrived.

It's clear based on that that their intention was to die at the scene. Why give terrorists what they want? Instead once has ended up locked up for the rest of his life, and the other for at least 45 years (of which he's served eight so far).