Politics3 mins ago
14 Labour Marxists......n A T O Is The Bad Guy!
100 Answers
https:/
....and people wonder why Labour will never win again!
....and people wonder why Labour will never win again!
Answers
The rot in the Labour Party is deep set. I can’t see any leader shifting it.
20:03 Wed 23rd Feb 2022
Gromit, if I want to read criticism of the government or even of the Conservative party, rather than resort to a rambling Scottish Nationalist blogger, I'll read the standard left wing press. I've no doubt they do their best.
Maggiebee, your coarseness says more about you than about anyone else. It does you no favours.
Maggiebee, your coarseness says more about you than about anyone else. It does you no favours.
An update:
Sir Kier Starmer has said, The [Stop the War] group did not represent “benign voices for peace”adding: “At best they are naive, at worst they actively give succour to authoritarian leaders who directly threaten democracies. There is nothing progressive in showing solidarity with the aggressor when our allies need our solidarity and – crucially – our practical assistance now more than ever.”
The 11 Labour MPs have dropped their backing for the statement when the Labour leadership threatened to remove the whip:
https:/
Sir Kier Starmer has said, The [Stop the War] group did not represent “benign voices for peace”adding: “At best they are naive, at worst they actively give succour to authoritarian leaders who directly threaten democracies. There is nothing progressive in showing solidarity with the aggressor when our allies need our solidarity and – crucially – our practical assistance now more than ever.”
The 11 Labour MPs have dropped their backing for the statement when the Labour leadership threatened to remove the whip:
https:/
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naomi : "Is there a third option?"
There are usually multiple options, e.g
e.g. from Tora's Link
"The statement read: “We refute the idea that NATO is a defensive alliance, and believe its record in Afghanistan, Yugoslavia and Libya over the last generation, not to mention the US-British attack on Iraq, clearly proves otherwise.
“We support all efforts to reach new arms control agreements in Europe and to move towards nuclear disarmament across the continent.
“We urge the entire anti-war movement to unite on the basis of challenging the British government’s aggressive posturing and direct its campaigning to that end above all.”
There are usually multiple options, e.g
e.g. from Tora's Link
"The statement read: “We refute the idea that NATO is a defensive alliance, and believe its record in Afghanistan, Yugoslavia and Libya over the last generation, not to mention the US-British attack on Iraq, clearly proves otherwise.
“We support all efforts to reach new arms control agreements in Europe and to move towards nuclear disarmament across the continent.
“We urge the entire anti-war movement to unite on the basis of challenging the British government’s aggressive posturing and direct its campaigning to that end above all.”
SevenOP, That's hot air from woolly-minded idealists who will challenge what they call 'aggressive posturing' from one side even while the other side is blowing people to smithereens - and that provides no solution. Fundamentally, when faced with a threat, there are only two basic options. For or against.
These idiots would be shouting about NATO even as they were being carted off to jail by Putin's (or whoever's) thugs
They cannot or will not face the uncomfotable truth that with evil in the world you need you abioity to defend yourself.
They claim to defend the weak, but they would rather pontificate and posture.
Utterly pathetic.
They cannot or will not face the uncomfotable truth that with evil in the world you need you abioity to defend yourself.
They claim to defend the weak, but they would rather pontificate and posture.
Utterly pathetic.
Full Stop the War Statement of 16 Feb 2022:
"Stop the War opposes any war over Ukraine, and believes the crisis should be settled on a basis which recognises the right of the Ukrainian people to self-determination and addresses Russia’s security concerns.
Our focus is on the policies of the British government which have poured oil on the fire throughout this episode. In taking this position we do not endorse the nature or conduct of either the Russian or Ukrainian regimes.
The British government has talked up the threat of war continually, to the point where the Ukraine government has asked it to stop.
Unlike the French and German governments, it has advanced no proposals for a diplomatic solution to the crisis, and has contributed only sabre-rattling.
Indeed, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has even accused those seeking a peaceful settlement of preparing “another Munich.”
Instead, the British government has sent arms to Ukraine and deployed further troops to Eastern Europe, moves which serve no purpose other than inflaming tensions and indicating disdain for Russian concerns.
It has also declared that Ukraine has a “sovereign right” to join NATO, when no such right exists to join it or any other military alliance.
Britain needs to change its policy, and start working for peace, not confrontation.
Stop the War believes that Russia and Ukraine should reach a diplomatic settlement of the tensions between them, on the basis of the Minsk-2 agreement already signed by both states.
It believes NATO should call a halt to its eastward expansion and commit to a new security deal for Europe which meets the needs of all states and peoples.
We refute the idea that NATO is a defensive alliance, and believe its record in Afghanistan, Yugoslavia and Libya over the last generation, not to mention the US-British attack on Iraq, clearly proves otherwise.
We support all efforts to reach new arms control agreements in Europe and to move towards nuclear disarmament across the continent.
We urge the entire anti-war movement to unite on the basis of challenging the British government’s aggressive posturing and direct its campaigning to that end above all."
16 Feb 2022 was before 24 February 2022 offensive.
naomi: "Fundamentally, when faced with a threat, there are only two basic options. For or against."
Locked in binary naomi. Does the word 'avoid' 'escape' you ?
"Stop the War opposes any war over Ukraine, and believes the crisis should be settled on a basis which recognises the right of the Ukrainian people to self-determination and addresses Russia’s security concerns.
Our focus is on the policies of the British government which have poured oil on the fire throughout this episode. In taking this position we do not endorse the nature or conduct of either the Russian or Ukrainian regimes.
The British government has talked up the threat of war continually, to the point where the Ukraine government has asked it to stop.
Unlike the French and German governments, it has advanced no proposals for a diplomatic solution to the crisis, and has contributed only sabre-rattling.
Indeed, Defence Secretary Ben Wallace has even accused those seeking a peaceful settlement of preparing “another Munich.”
Instead, the British government has sent arms to Ukraine and deployed further troops to Eastern Europe, moves which serve no purpose other than inflaming tensions and indicating disdain for Russian concerns.
It has also declared that Ukraine has a “sovereign right” to join NATO, when no such right exists to join it or any other military alliance.
Britain needs to change its policy, and start working for peace, not confrontation.
Stop the War believes that Russia and Ukraine should reach a diplomatic settlement of the tensions between them, on the basis of the Minsk-2 agreement already signed by both states.
It believes NATO should call a halt to its eastward expansion and commit to a new security deal for Europe which meets the needs of all states and peoples.
We refute the idea that NATO is a defensive alliance, and believe its record in Afghanistan, Yugoslavia and Libya over the last generation, not to mention the US-British attack on Iraq, clearly proves otherwise.
We support all efforts to reach new arms control agreements in Europe and to move towards nuclear disarmament across the continent.
We urge the entire anti-war movement to unite on the basis of challenging the British government’s aggressive posturing and direct its campaigning to that end above all."
16 Feb 2022 was before 24 February 2022 offensive.
naomi: "Fundamentally, when faced with a threat, there are only two basic options. For or against."
Locked in binary naomi. Does the word 'avoid' 'escape' you ?
naomi: "but what are your bleeding hearts saying now Russia is actively attacking the Ukraine - or haven't they noticed?"
I have no "your bleeding hearts".
"the full Monty" gives fuller context.... as does exact dates.
dannyk13 : "sevenOP. are you a pacifist? Or do you really believe the load of guff you are posting?"
If, by pacifist you mean would I physically defend myself against physical aggression , yes I would.
dannyk13, what precisely, is this " load of guff" that I am posting ?
I have no "your bleeding hearts".
"the full Monty" gives fuller context.... as does exact dates.
dannyk13 : "sevenOP. are you a pacifist? Or do you really believe the load of guff you are posting?"
If, by pacifist you mean would I physically defend myself against physical aggression , yes I would.
dannyk13, what precisely, is this " load of guff" that I am posting ?
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