Eu Non Sanctions

[Gramps82]

So much for the EU supporting Ukraine in its struggle against Russia. Boris Johnson proposed that Russia be excluded from SWIFT only for Belgium, Germany, Italy and Hungry to block any such move. Italy worried about Gucci Handbags and Belgium about selling diamonds. Even Donald Tusk also told the EU that they are a disgrace to themselves.
Thank God we are no longer in such a self centred organisation.

[ToraToraTora]

they'll come on side after a bit of encouragement, they just need a deal that's all.

[ichkeria]

I don’t want to start yet another Brexit argument but actually by the standards of the EU they’ve been swift, but not yet SWIFT alas, and decisive.
The SWIFT divisions would exist regardless of the EU.
Whether a Brexiteer or a Remainer we stand with Ukraine

[douglas9401]

They're merely allowing their pals to get all their ducks in a row first, just like our stronger, stable, levelling up lot are doing for the select few here.

[jno]

one theory (not necessarily mine): that if excluded from Swift the Russians would channel money through the Chinese system, nudging Russia and China closer together.

[ToraToraTora]

you mean china's internal system? That'll be ok for their interactions with China but if they want to use China's Swift by disguising their transactions, we'll pick that up.

[ToraToraTora]

eg they could bury their MT10n's in a Chinese MT900 for example then un pack it at the other end but we have sanction busting code that scans for that sort of thing. Not impossible but they'll struggle to find a way.

[youngmafbog]

Very true TTT, any attempt to make a payment (MT1nn) through another source will be picked up by the sanction programs (eg Hotscan) that all payments are passed through. This has been tried and failed by other despots in the past.

The only was I could see they can continue would be through crypto as that is unregulated.

[Gromit]

And what is the UK’s excuse for not suspending SWIFT?

I thought leaving the EU meant were were no longer governed by what Belgium, Germany, Italy and Hungry do.

[ToraToraTora]

gromit: "And what is the UK’s excuse for not suspending SWIFT? " - gromit please learn about SWIFT so you don't look like a complete idiot.

[Gromit]

TTT,
// China’s cross-border interbank payment system, CIPS, which is administered by the People’s Bank of China, handled 2.2 million payment transactions last year with a total value of 45.2 trillion yuan. The volume of CIPS payment traffic last year rose by about 20 %, while the total value of transactions was up by over 30 %. Growth was particularly strong in the final quarter of 2020. //

[jim360]

Presumably the point of an international payments system is that it takes a rather broad consensus to exclude anyone from it. The UK can hardly do much about SWIFT on its own. That Johnson seems determined not to shut up about it, and to persuade other nations to join in, is rather important then to getting that consensus. As far as I'm aware, Germany is the only major holdout.

[douglas9401]

All this technical stuff about SWIFT is hard to swallow.

[ToraToraTora]

gromit, sure they could use that but it's tiny and we'd stop it as soon as it hits SWIFT which it innevitably would unless they only want to interact with countries that use CIPS. Taking them out of SWIFT would hurt.

[youngmafbog]

But Gromit, I have told you on another thread yet you come and repeat the same rubbish.

You clearly dont understand SWIFT, so either go and learn about it or let others who do understand it comment. It does make you look foolish when you keep on.

NB, as I pointed out before: I have worked with SWIFT since 1987. I was IT Appliucation Development manager for one of the Worlds biggest Banks and responsible for the SWIFT. I also upgraded to SWIFT 7 the Worlds FX trading system. At yet another Bank I was invovlved with SWIFT in non Fin message B2B implementation for trade settlements in Europe.(and UK)

[ToraToraTora]

YMB, here here!

[ToraToraTora]

take the time to go and learn about SWIFT gromit!