Should There Be A Windfall Tax On The Oil Companies?

[ToraToraTora]

Labour politicians have been harping on about it for months and Rodders brought it up again at PMQs today. So what do we think?

[Gromit]

No.
We need their help in finding alternative sources of energy. The high price of oil is due to mistakes by politicians worldwide, not price manipulation by the oil companies.

[ToraToraTora]

Well you surprised me with that answer Gromit!

[dannyk13]

Gromit // is due to mistakes by politicians worldwide,//
So nothing to do with Putin then?

[Gromit]

dannyk13

The price was high before the war.
Russia and Saudi Arabia have colluded to restrict supply to keep profits high.
Various US administrations (and UK obedience) have embargoed Iranian and Venezuelan oil so that with have been beholden to the despots in Moscow and Riyadh.

[dannyk13]

Gromit //Russia and Saudi Arabia have colluded to restrict supply to keep profits high//
So the answer to my question is 'yes'.

[Gromit]

Putin is obviously partly responsible for the high price of oil.
But leaders around the world didn’t have to hand him money, they could have bought elsewhere or reduced their consumption.

But it was easier to ignore his atrocities and those of Mohammed bin Salman.

And we are where we are today.

[Gromit]

This seems like a good place to applaud BP for their unequivocal rejection of Russia over the war.
They have severed all ties to Putin’s regime and have left $billions on the table.
So well done fore doing the right thing, even if it costs them a great deal of money.

[Togo]

Gromit is right ... but for the wrong reason. He wants to enrich a different set of extremists. Why would the oil companies invest in exploration and infrastructure in new energy supplies when the existing ones are not worth their original investments due to punitive taxes that are tantamount to siezure of assets? If you had an oil well and the "authorities" said that every drop you worked to extract would be taxed so hard that you were literally working for nothing, what would you do. I know what I would do. Turn off the taps and leave it where it is. It is no different to taxing high earners beyond reason, then wondering why all the clever people leave to work somewhere else and all the benefits dependants want to live here.

[Ellipsis]

So, tax them then give it back to them in grants for developing alternative energy sources. This is the big one:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-60312633

[Gromit]

// If you had an oil well and the "authorities" said that every drop you worked to extract would be taxed so hard that you were literally working for nothing, what would you do. //

Oil companies do not work for nothing. None have ever gone out of business due to being taxed.
The Brain Drain is also a fallacy. No one ever leaves over tax.

[Togo]

//give it back to them in grants for developing alternative energy sources.//

Riiigghhtt ... Like turkeys investing in Christmas you mean?

I wouldn't get too excited about fusion just yet. The viability of it is still decades away and will not "save the whirled" any time soon. It has managed to generate 11 megawatts of power( 2 kettle fulls of water boiled every day for a month) at a cost of £squillions. Despite what the hysterical eco loons tell you we are going to need oil, gas, and coal too, for many years to come.

[bobbinwales]

It sounds good in theory but how does it work if there not based here (specially Russian companies) and what if its just passed on in increased prices to customers.

[Togo]

//The Brain Drain is also a fallacy//

I am sure that we are all fully aware, that you were never "tempted".

[Ellipsis]

> Riiigghhtt ... Like turkeys investing in Christmas you mean?

Do you not trust our wonderful Government to be able to check that grant money is being spent on what it was granted to be spent on?

[Togo]

Have you read all your own link or just looked at the pictures? Let me.

The fusion announcement is great news but sadly it won't help in our battle to lessen the effects of climate change.


There's huge uncertainty about when fusion power will be ready for commercialisation. One estimate suggests maybe 20 years. Then fusion would need to scale up, which would mean a delay of perhaps another few decades.


And here's the problem: the need for carbon-free energy is urgent - and the government has pledged that all electricity in the UK must be zero emissions by 2035. That means nuclear, renewables and energy storage.
In the words of my colleague Jon Amos: "Fusion is not a solution to get us to 2050 net zero. This is a solution to power society in the second half of this century."

Roger Harriban "Environment analyst"

You are mistaken again with the fatuous jibe about trusting the Government and its control of the research. JET is for Joint European Torus. It is a project with input from clever people from all over Europe. You are not part of it I take it.

[Ellipsis]

I'm suggesting that energy companies are taxed and then, if they wish to apply for a grant and successfully apply for that grant, are granted funds (substantially paid for out of those taxes) and checked to make sure they are spending those granted funds correctly, to research and develop alternative energy sources to fossil fuels, including nuclear fusion. Which part of that don't you agree with?

[bobbinwales]

Ellipses when you say "taxing the energy companies" do you mean companies like British Gas, Bulb, Peoples Energy? Actually forget the last 2 as there two of the twenty odd firms that have gone bust as like all supppliers there having to trade at a loss now because the price cap figures altho there horrific are actually not enough to cover the prices charged by the initial suppliers like them from Russia

[Ellipsis]

I mean companies that are involved in the supply of energy, according to the sources of energy they are supplying and where in the supply chain they sit.

[Togo]

@19.32. Couldn't you make it a little more complicated?
Who needs another series of admin wonks to do a simple job? Answer the left wing hand wringers.
How about getting the bloodsuckers who are hoovering up windmill money and so lahh panel susidies to contribute instead?

// if they wish to apply for a grant and successfully apply for that grant, are granted funds (substantially paid for out of those taxes) and checked to make sure they are spending those granted funds correctly, //

Straight out of the EUSSR playbook. Give you your own money back if you are a good lad.

[Ellipsis]

It's not their money if they have been taxed out of it. They don't get to choose how it's spent. They can have it back if it's spent on the something that's useful to the people that they got it from in the first place.

Fuel prices are ridiculous. Why? Because they're largely set by the likes of Saudi Arabia and Russia, through their actions of one sort or another. And you and I are expected to pay those prices ad infinitum, because the very people we buy our energy from are hugely rewarded for partnering with those states, and not incentivised to change their sources of energy supply any time soon. About time they were incentivised.