News9 mins ago
State Pension
Will the triple lock system be Sunaks "Hot Potato" ??.
I think it will be his and his partys downfall .Triple lock is going to be a major issue , but no one wants to discuss it. Sunak,Hunt and DWP Secretary have refused comment or address the issue ,but you can bet your life they are cooking something up between them that will be no advantage to Pensioners.
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I think it will be his and his partys downfall .Triple lock is going to be a major issue , but no one wants to discuss it. Sunak,Hunt and DWP Secretary have refused comment or address the issue ,but you can bet your life they are cooking something up between them that will be no advantage to Pensioners.
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//cost about £8bn to maintain it. This outrageous sum is four times the current annual hotel bill for accommodating migrants//
How do you reconcile outrageous with the cost of £8bn to maintain the state pension/s?
Since it costs £2bn to house 25,000 migrants in hotels, yet only 4 times that amount to fund 8.5 million people of state pension age. Does the latter not represent more bang for your buck?
How do you reconcile outrageous with the cost of £8bn to maintain the state pension/s?
Since it costs £2bn to house 25,000 migrants in hotels, yet only 4 times that amount to fund 8.5 million people of state pension age. Does the latter not represent more bang for your buck?
What is a reasonable increase and what is not will depend on one's view of what should be the going rate and by what percentage that differs from the existing rate.
(It's a clear problem with some graphs I've seen trying to portray a particular group as hard done by. A year is selected, and all to be shown on the graph are set together at zero, then one group points out how less well they have fared since then. But chose another year to zero everyone, and the apparent conclusion may be very different. Were every group being paid the correct rate at the point all were zeroed ? Or were some overpaid, underpaid, or what ? The graph gives little insight into the reality.)
(It's a clear problem with some graphs I've seen trying to portray a particular group as hard done by. A year is selected, and all to be shown on the graph are set together at zero, then one group points out how less well they have fared since then. But chose another year to zero everyone, and the apparent conclusion may be very different. Were every group being paid the correct rate at the point all were zeroed ? Or were some overpaid, underpaid, or what ? The graph gives little insight into the reality.)
//How do you reconcile outrageous with the cost of £8bn to maintain the state pension/s?//
You missed my sarcasm.
//NJ, is your £8 billion figure the cost of increasing by inflation or the difference between using the rate of inflation and average earnings?//
The figures I used are the estimates of around £11bn to raise it by inflation (around 10%) and about £3bn to raise by average earnings (around 3%). The third alternative of the "triple lock is 2.5%, which I assume would cost about £2.5bn.
//What is a reasonable increase and what is not will depend on one's view of what should be the going rate and by what percentage that differs from the existing rate.//
A reasonable increase would be around 20%. The UK's State Pension is among the poorest in Western Europe. On average the State pension amounts to under 50% of pensioners' incomes. This is the lowest in Europe bar the Netherlands. The percentage of government spending attributed to pensions is 4.7%. This has decreased from a recent peak of 5.2% in 2014 and is the lowest in Europe apart from Estonia and Ireland. Greece, France, Italy, Finland, Portugal and Austria all spend more than 10%. Germany 8%. The OECD average is 6.5%. There's lots more in this paper:
https:/
It doesn't make particularly good reading for the UK's State pension scheme but I accept there are many variables such as the level of contributions, the number of years required to get the maximum pension and the retirement age. But the biggest bugbear I find with the State pension scheme is the total disconnection between the contributions made and the payments received. A person earning 100,000 pa will pay (at this year's rates) about 5.2 times as much NI (upon which the State Pension depends) as someone earning £20,000pa. But both will receive the same basic State Pension. And don't even start me off on the State "pensions" that have not been funded at all.
You missed my sarcasm.
//NJ, is your £8 billion figure the cost of increasing by inflation or the difference between using the rate of inflation and average earnings?//
The figures I used are the estimates of around £11bn to raise it by inflation (around 10%) and about £3bn to raise by average earnings (around 3%). The third alternative of the "triple lock is 2.5%, which I assume would cost about £2.5bn.
//What is a reasonable increase and what is not will depend on one's view of what should be the going rate and by what percentage that differs from the existing rate.//
A reasonable increase would be around 20%. The UK's State Pension is among the poorest in Western Europe. On average the State pension amounts to under 50% of pensioners' incomes. This is the lowest in Europe bar the Netherlands. The percentage of government spending attributed to pensions is 4.7%. This has decreased from a recent peak of 5.2% in 2014 and is the lowest in Europe apart from Estonia and Ireland. Greece, France, Italy, Finland, Portugal and Austria all spend more than 10%. Germany 8%. The OECD average is 6.5%. There's lots more in this paper:
https:/
It doesn't make particularly good reading for the UK's State pension scheme but I accept there are many variables such as the level of contributions, the number of years required to get the maximum pension and the retirement age. But the biggest bugbear I find with the State pension scheme is the total disconnection between the contributions made and the payments received. A person earning 100,000 pa will pay (at this year's rates) about 5.2 times as much NI (upon which the State Pension depends) as someone earning £20,000pa. But both will receive the same basic State Pension. And don't even start me off on the State "pensions" that have not been funded at all.
I hate to say I told you so, but in 2020 I said the lockdown and paying people to sit on their backsides would have wide-ranging repercussions….and guess what.
Many people whining about the current situation are the same who supported the absurd restrictions - many (possibly most) of whom were pensioners.
Pensioners, in my view, have to take some of the pain. Working people will not receive inflation level pay rises, so I struggle to see why the state pension (its not a ‘pension’, otherwise those who paid more in would get more out, but that’s probably worthy of a different thread) and benefits should be inflation proof.
Unless you’re a nurse, of course, where they want an outrageous additional 5% above inflation, which is absurd, but they can’t be criticised of course because they’re ‘angels’, but so angelic they’re willing to strike and put the lives of people at risk.
Many people whining about the current situation are the same who supported the absurd restrictions - many (possibly most) of whom were pensioners.
Pensioners, in my view, have to take some of the pain. Working people will not receive inflation level pay rises, so I struggle to see why the state pension (its not a ‘pension’, otherwise those who paid more in would get more out, but that’s probably worthy of a different thread) and benefits should be inflation proof.
Unless you’re a nurse, of course, where they want an outrageous additional 5% above inflation, which is absurd, but they can’t be criticised of course because they’re ‘angels’, but so angelic they’re willing to strike and put the lives of people at risk.
From the OBR,
"Pensioner benefit spending totalled £114 billion in Great Britain in 2020-21, of which £101 billion was spent on state pensions. The same system operates in Northern Ireland, but spending there is not included in these figures or discussed on these pages as we include it separately in our figures for ‘Northern Ireland social security’. Pensioner benefit spending in 2020-21 represents around 10 per cent of total public spending (down from 13 per cent in 2019-20), and 5 per cent of GDP."
https:/
"Pensioner benefit spending totalled £114 billion in Great Britain in 2020-21, of which £101 billion was spent on state pensions. The same system operates in Northern Ireland, but spending there is not included in these figures or discussed on these pages as we include it separately in our figures for ‘Northern Ireland social security’. Pensioner benefit spending in 2020-21 represents around 10 per cent of total public spending (down from 13 per cent in 2019-20), and 5 per cent of GDP."
https:/
submitted afore I finished
I'm wondering what your hoping to achieve here gulliver and why your stirring on an issue rather than just waiting till next weeks budget. Are you hoping posts like this and pressure will persuade sunak to keep the triple lock....if so thats fair enough but it may just help the Cons regain some support..... Or are you hoping they drop the triple lock so pensioners lose out and you can say I told you so and cheer another nail going in the the Cons coffin ???
I'm wondering what your hoping to achieve here gulliver and why your stirring on an issue rather than just waiting till next weeks budget. Are you hoping posts like this and pressure will persuade sunak to keep the triple lock....if so thats fair enough but it may just help the Cons regain some support..... Or are you hoping they drop the triple lock so pensioners lose out and you can say I told you so and cheer another nail going in the the Cons coffin ???
Bobbinwales - it’s quite simple, Gulliver hates the Tories.
It really is no more than that.
The Tories could solve world hunger, create a cure for cancer, solve the energy crisis, bring peace in Ukraine, make everybody rich and give everybody a free Unicorn, and it still wouldn’t be right.
He’s best ignored.
It really is no more than that.
The Tories could solve world hunger, create a cure for cancer, solve the energy crisis, bring peace in Ukraine, make everybody rich and give everybody a free Unicorn, and it still wouldn’t be right.
He’s best ignored.
Ladybirder @ 21.00 + Fripfrip@ 20.04.
An online petition posted on The Parliament website has called for a minimum weekly state pension of £380 per week It said the UK Pension in its current form is "far too low" and Pensioners need more support, to lift the state pensioners out of Poverty.
The DWP previously rejected the petition outright,
but now it has reached the 10,000 signature threshold ,it has to trigger a Govt response.
An online petition posted on The Parliament website has called for a minimum weekly state pension of £380 per week It said the UK Pension in its current form is "far too low" and Pensioners need more support, to lift the state pensioners out of Poverty.
The DWP previously rejected the petition outright,
but now it has reached the 10,000 signature threshold ,it has to trigger a Govt response.
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