Good Ole E C H R.......another Nail I The Coffin For Women's Sport.

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics/66162083
....why doesn't he race with the men? I think I know! He has a Y chromosome after all.

[Untitled]

some medcal conditions do result in women having y chromosomes toratoratora so that isn't always true

[Khandro]

A child of six could see this is a man.

will someone send out for a child of six !

[ToraToraTora]

No medical condition changes chromosomes untitled. People are born with what they have.

[bazwillrun]

@ClareTG0ld

well done, you get todays prize for deliberately missing the point...

[Untitled]

you are not correct toratoratora

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/swyer-syndrome/

is one example

[ToraToraTora]

It does not say chromosomes can change after birth in that link. I quote: "In Swyer syndrome, individuals have one X chromosome and one Y chromosome in each cell, which is the pattern typically found in boys and men" - QED.

[Peter Pedant]

that higher testosterone actually provides an athletic advantage?

I was wondering that - because if the magic number is 95 everyone takes testosterone to a level of 95- - - simples.

This is sport BUT in 1980 ( no not porton down) a Ph D radiochemist was hired as med reg at Birminham general hospital ( er also MRCP, too much detail)
to investigate giving steroids to ITU patients to preserve muscle mass.... (Chen)

and found by using radioactive nya-na ( wiv consent mind you)
that the Na + and K + increased but not mch else ( not protein).

very very technical - ( I am a bad puppy) but the short answer is - -not it doesnt work

[Gromit]

// Women with Swyer syndrome do not produce eggs (ova), but if they have a uterus, they may be able to become pregnant with a donated egg or embryo. //

Lol, you are definitely in Starmer territory if you think someone with a uterus is a man ;-)

[naomi24]

Gromit, this athlete doesn’t have a uterus or ovaries - just internal testes and levels of testosterone three times higher than that usually expected in a female.

[Untitled]

i suggest you read the link with more honest intentions toratoratora because it is not really a matter of opinion... you are factually incorrect

[ToraToraTora]

untitled, show me where it says chromosomes can change after birth. Any source will do. It is you that is factually incorrect. All I am saying is that chromosomes cannot change after birth and someone with a Y chromosome is a man, end of.

[ToraToraTora]

I accept that this is an unusual person. Should we destroy women's sport for extremely rare anomalies? He can compete with all the other possessors of a Y chromosome in all the sports available.

[Old_Geezer]

One simply can not be fair to everyone in such a situation. In these rare cases it is clear the individual has an advantage not brought about by training, yet experts deem they are female. Either she or her competitors are going to get unfairly treated. It's unfortunate she chose to compete in an area where her difference gives unfair advantage, but where do you draw the line without bringing down the whole concept of trying to have "a level playing field" for all ? An impossible situation to have to decide on as there is no obvious fair decision that can be made.

[ToraToraTora]

OG: "An impossible situation to have to decide on as there is no obvious fair decision that can be made. " - yes so you please the vast majority not the extreme rarity.

[Old_Geezer]

Apparently the DSD they have is (5αR2D) which, as you say, gives then an X and a Y chromosome. In which case, sad to say, they probably should take the hit as part of their makeup. And accept not athletically competing in the women's events. The testosterone reducing thing is a red herring, and probably shouldn't have been considered.

[Untitled]

"someone with a Y chromosome is a man"

but there are disorders including Swyer among others that can cause women to be born with a Y chromosomes that does not result in masculine physiology... the link is very short and explains this in some detail if you are at all interested in facts rather than in ideological posturing

you are incorrect about this and in fact do you not actually seem very interested in what the truth is

[Untitled]

if this person is an extreme rarity then what harm is being done to the sport in allowing her to participate? how does it "destroy the sport"?

[naomi24]

Since this athlete has internal testes, I’m wondering if that’s the source of the sperm used to impregnate the wife? I don’t even know if that’s possible but I guess with a little surgery it might be. I can find reference to the IVF but not to the father of the children.

[naomi24]

Untitled, it’s not a level playing field for the other competitors. We’ve talked about that.

[ToraToraTora]

untitled; //f this person is an extreme rarity then what harm is being done to the sport in allowing him to participate? how does it "destroy the sport"? // - you seriously have to ask that? Ok i'll play, he'll take away the chances of all the women he competes against. He'd probably win any of the athletics events against women, he's only done a couple so far but now he's got the all clear he can enter loads more. How pleased would you be to have a daughter that trained hard for the Olympics only to see her lose out to a bloke? Any news on finding somewhere it says chromosomes can change after birth?