An Essay On Isael And Gaza. What Do You Make Of It?

[Atheist]

https://medium.com/@isaac_1884/the-attacks-on-israel-and-the-response-15ed50e63da6

 

[Atheist]

Naomi, you don't seem to want a discussion, you seem to just enjoy being confrontational, and never to answer questions, just pose them. That style is no good for sensible debate.

:-)

[naomi24]

Confrontational. atheist?  Not at all. I'm trying to have a discussion you say you want, but when you answer a question with a question - an irrelevant one at that - and then accuse me of failing to answer questions, that isn't possible.   That style is, indeed, no good for sensible debate because it simply isn't sensible.  

[Atheist]

OK, Naomi.

 

[Countrylover]

Naomi, may I ask you a question.  In two  threads  now you have justified your thoughts as being correct because you have 'been there'  I presume you mean Gaza.  Have you lived there or been there long enough to fully understand what is going on?

During the years I have been on this site I have never seen you so involved as to get so worked up.  It makes me wonder.  Have you any roots in that part of the world?  You don't have to answer.

[naomi24]

//In two  threads  now you have justified your thoughts as being correct because you have 'been there' //

 

As far as I'm aware I've never justified my thoughts on this topic 'because I've been there'.

[Countrylover]

I didn't think you expected answers to the education question.  My answer would have been much the same as atheists.

[Khandro]

If you want to read the Hamas Charter mostly drawn up by the nefarious Muslim Brotherhood, you can read about it here; 

https://embassies.gov.il/NEW-YORK/ABOUTISRAEL/Pages/Hamas-Covenant.aspx#:~:text=The%20Hamas%20charter%20is%20the,18%20years%20of%20its%20existence.

 

If you don't want to be bothered, here is a preamble;

On the destruction of Israel:

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." 

So before you give unhesitating support to "Palestine", this is what you are actually supporting.

And here's a thought;

 

“Not every German who bought a copy of Mein Kampf necessarily read it … But it might be argued that had more non-Nazi Germans read it before 1933 and had the foreign statesmen of the world perused it carefully while there was still time, both Germany and the world might have been saved from catastrophe.”

— William L. Shirer, The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich

[Khandro]

CL to naomi //Have you lived there or been there long enough to fully understand what is going on?//

 

Have you?

[royfromaus]

Does anyone fully understand what is going on?

[Countrylover]

16.56 Friday  Untitled, we've been there.  It isn't.

 

Perhaps it's just a phrase you use. But I noticed it way back when this subject arose on here.   If it is, it is certainly not a way to discuss.  

[Countrylover]

You obviously don't want to answer my question, Naomi so I'll drop the subject. 

[naomi24]

The reason I asked the question - and I would have liked some answers - is because a very high percentage of those living in Gaza are young people.  It follows then that they have been raised according to Hamas ideology.  Therefore, whilst I fully understand the huge support we're seeing for Palestinians (who have been treated abominably - and that is something I have always said), in the circumstances I strongly suspect that the vast majority of their supporters do not understand what they are actually  supporting.   Preaching ethics and morals is all very well - if reality is ignored.   

[naomi24]

Lottie, I don't discuss my personal life on here - but I've answered the relevant part of your question.  My opinions on this topic have not been formed by my travels -  and I've never said they have.

[Countrylover]

No khandro.  But I don't  put down people who think differently.

I just thought that Naomi might perhaps have strong connections with Israel because of her attitude on these threads.

The essay actually expresses my thoughts.

 

[Countrylover]

Fair enough Naomi.  I didn't think the question really involved your personal life as such.  I will just continue to wonder :0). 

[naomi24]

Lottie, I have travelled widely, but my attitude on these threads is what it is because the prospect of Hamas succeeding in their quest doesn't bear thinking of.  It would be a disaster for the world.   Think Hamas, ISIS,  Hezbollah, the Taliban ... and all the rest.  In those circumstances that is what will replace Israel.

[sandyRoe]

Naomi24, 

You've voiced the opinion, more than once, that the people in the west who support Palestinians don't know what they're talking about.

How do you know that?

[naomi24]

sandyRoe, I expect those who openly support Hamas know what they're talking about. No one could have seen reports of what happened on 7 October without knowing what that support involves.   The rest, I think, don't support terrorism but are looking at Palestinian history purely from an ethical and  morally principled viewpoint without seriously considering the stark reality of what would happen should Hamas succeed.  For the sake of the western world, this is one of those rare occasions when principles - however well-intended - really should be abandoned - in my opinion.

[Untitled]

the conflation of support for palestine with support for hamas is a cynical and invalid ploy... it is done by those who wish to see israel's project of genocide and ethnic cleansing carried out to completion and to smear and silence people who oppose it. it's a worldview every bit as murderous as that of hamas, but disguised behind affectations of "civility" and "politeness" and "decency". It is a lie and a vicious one. 
 

the cause of the palestinians long predates hamas and does not concern gaza alone. It is possible and even common to oppose what israel is doing and also to oppose hamas. any who says otherwise is not speaking in good faith and should be treated with suspicion. 

[Countrylover]

Naomi,  do you really think that,if they get rid of Hamas at the expense of thousands of innocent lives, it will solve the problem?  The groups you  mention plus new groups will take over.  Let's face it Israel wants to wipe out islamics/Muslims off the face of the earth, ie  much like Hitler wanted to do with the Jews,ie genocide.  

/For the sake of the western world, this is one of those rare occasions when principles - however well-intended - really should be abandoned - in my opinion./

My morals and principles take priority,  

And I don't have any answers.  I'm  not wise enough.  I just know that what Israel is doing breaks agreements, is wrong and won't work